Arguing with liberals

August 1, 2002 | NC Conservative

[NC Conservative]

Hey Freepers. I have been debating with my liberal friends on things such as taxes, Israel/Palestine, UN, et. All they do is repeat the same bilge. It is hard talking to them so I have had it up to my neck with it. They are nice people but damn they are liberal. They always say republicans are crooks, tax cuts on the backs of he poor yada yada yada. Does anyone else get the same reaction? Also, when does crap like this enter their head? Childhood? College?

[Texas Mom]

and always sure to get deep under the skin of any liberal is, "garbage in, garbage out."

I love it.. Will use it in the future..

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

I often wonder whether being such a close-minded, racist, homophobic, big oil worshipping, male chauvanist pig somehow prevents me from seeing the wisdom in my liberal friends' tiny little minds. Whoops, did I say "tiny?"

On the other hand, I knew a liberal girl who taught eighth grade social studies. Naturally, she indoctrinated the kids with all kinds of marxist nonsense. One day I pointed out to her the real facts behind the mythical "glass ceiling", which was part of the agenda for class the next day. After she made it plain to me that these facts wouldn't be part of her lecture, I realized that she was basically a lost cause (and I shudder to think about her students) and the only hope was that one day she would wake up and see the light b/c she sure as hell wouldn't listen to me.

The other possibility is that these people are just evil, but I like to be a bit more optimistic...

[stands2reason]

I am an ex-liberal. Many on this site are. Those who say, "Give up" are losers.

[HumanaeVitae]

Exactly. Liberals are like pond-scum. It only grows in stagnant water.

[Jim Scott]

Not a real interesting post, just for discussion.

Actually, it's a very interesting post as many FReepers have been exactly where you are now. Attempting to argue with liberal friends, relatives or co-workers and getting nowhere, fast. It's frustrating.

I don't try much anymore after a getting into a loud, table-pounding argument over Clinton at a dinner party given by some good friends a few years ago.

Now, I avoid discussing political personalities like Clinton or Bush or even specific laws or bills. That gets bogged down in details and everyone gets off on some tangent. I just try to find what they actually believe in; their political philosophy. They usually have none or spout bumper-sticker slogans. Nothing is solved of course but the vapidness of their beliefs becomes a bit clearer - to both of us.

If you can't change their minds at least be able to point out that their argument is mostly emotion and a parroting liberal cliches.

[rintense]

You need this icon:

[foolish-one]

What about those of us who tell him to do it for the entertainment value?

[ken5050]

were you mugged?..I hope you're OK

[foolish-one]

You're on a roll today!

[CPT Clay]

Ver good advice Z guy!!!!

[elk]

This may sound strange, but one tactic I use is to out "do-good" them; I don't like to tout my "good works," but I'll bring issues out in order to gain leverage to straighten some liberals out. Doing "good deeds" occurs naturally to me anyhow, I believe, as a conservative, since I always put my money where my mouth is -- e.g., take the time to actually raise my family, and I do much that is environmentally sound, etc., because it is morally right to do so (as opposed to because of gaia worship or other such nonsense). Liberals may or may not believe in God, and if they do, it's often a "work your way to heaven" view, and/or they take their good deeds to use as a sledgehammer against others, intellectually.

Here's an example: a lot of liberals I know do good deeds, such as 5K runs for a disease (yes, usually AIDS), soup kitchens, etc., and it makes them feel morally superior (I know, weird coming from folks who embrace moral relativism- but remember the vast double standard that exists for conservatives!)

But how many can say that they ride their bike to work, thereby saving resources; how many donate childrens furniture or clothing to crisis pregnancy centers where women who CHOOSE to have their babies can get assistance; or does the cow they eat and wear get to run free like the deer I take in by hunting? etc.

I think when done tactfully, one can expose a ton of liberal hypocracy -- hypocracy being one of the deadly sins to a liberal of which all conservatives are guilty...

Just a few thoughts!

[Richard Axtell]

There are TWO kinds of liberals; the deceivers... and the deceived. You might be able to sway the deceived, if you can effectively point out the counterproductive
results of the policies they supposedly support. You will never convince a deceiver of anything, at least nothing he will openly acknowledge. He is in the business of
perpetuating lies and obfuscation to spread a political agenda that is not supported by reality. Ergo, he cares not for the facts. You can belittle him by knowing more
about a given issue than he does, but he will never give an inch, as truth and reality are not his goals or interests. Use "Ergo" before he does, and he will be frustrated.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

You're never going to win an argument with a liberal - or even get them to concede a point - because the whole purpose for being a liberal is to feel good about yourself. It's not about right or wrong or what's best for the country or even any group or individual, only what makes "ME" feel good. Therefore they will deny anything that contradicts their position to the point of absurdity because to do otherwise would cause them to "not feel so good". Just thinking could be painful, so it must be avoided, if necessary, to preserve the self-satisfaction and esteem of the saintly liberal.

Conservatism is boring, that's the whole problem. You read the Constitution, the DoI, and the Bible--one book and a couple of pamphlets--and you have conservatism in your grasp. BOORRINNGGG!

Conservatism is interested in the long haul, in doubling the GDP every couple of generations. Let's face it, you don't need much of a data rate to describe that! Anticonservatism is everything other than that long-term growth trend, and its dependence on unchanging principle.

Anticonservatism takes the fruits of conservatism for granted, rejecting any suggestion that subverting conservatism can actually do harm--or even that the secular improvement in living standards is a societal virtue. In that would-be-tyrant's paradise they are free simply to ask, "What else would be nice?"--and to take unalloyed credit for their own wonderful intentions.

Limitations, side effects, and unintended consequences having been defined away a priori, there then remains no possibility of rational argument with the wonderful feeling of cost-free virtue. A feeling that, apparently, is as addictive as a cocaine high . . .

[Redleg Duke]

Debating facts with a liberal is like trying to teach a pig to fly. You won't be successful and it annoys the pig.

[f.Christian]

In a democracy the rich liberals have to go for the smuck vote...look at the Kennedy's---minority voters!

[mj1234]

HOORAY!-- You got most of it. ADD what commonality that
you have with a liberal (most people are some type of
Christian-at least the people I know)Tell them to pray for
what is good and shine a light on what is evil and bad.I do.
And I see some evil conservatives-BUT mostly EVIL liberals
who relish in blaspheming GOD.Turn their hearts to being
positive Christians ...This is the only way I have been able to change a liberal.

[rrr51]

I then asked how a company making 10% could lower its prices by 40% and stay in business. He suddely had a previously unannounced meeting to attend.

There is a simple answer. The other 30% comes from their giant pile of money. Everybody knoew that big corporations have a giant pile of money which can be accessed at any time for any reason.

[Lovergirl]

I have been thru it so many times, its ridiculous. When they know they can't win an arguement they get mad and interrupt, and scream, and then they don't want to talk about it anymore. It's very bizarre.(actually pretty funny, too):)

[LantzALot]

I've suspected that they have a web site somewhere that they all log on to every day to find out what the people who think for them want them to say about any issue. Note how the language is frozen in content. E.g., your "Tax cuts on the backs of the poor;" or the one that astounded me with the volume of its brainless repitition during the impeachment of Klit-ong -- "Doesn't rise to the level...."

[foolish-one]

Unfortunately, I agree. Thanks for clarifying the point.

A lightbulb went on while I was reading your response. What I found interesting is that if you substitute "Parent" for "conservatism" and "Teanager" for "anticonservatism", the explanation still makes sense and is still valid and may represent more accurately and graphically the conservatism vs liberal argument.