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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Belly up to the bar, there's plenty of grift for everyone. It's free to the public, thanks to all the people who are compelled to pay for that which they do not use and do not want.

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical. -- Thomas Jefferson


71 posted on 07/29/2002 3:28:59 PM PDT by ppaul
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To: ppaul
Can you give me a source for that quote? I see it from time to time but have never been able to find the source. I suspect it may be yet another Internet Legend-type quote, since at least taken out of context as it is, then Jefferson thought CONGRESS was illegal.
76 posted on 07/29/2002 4:01:19 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: ppaul
Okay, I found it. It IS by Jefferson, and it is from a Bill that he introduced when he was a member of the Virginia Assembly, in 1785. The Bill was entitled

The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom

Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men,have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporal rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labors for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that, therefore, the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to the offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which in common with his fellow citizens he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honors and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles, on the supposition of their ill tendency, is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency, will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.

Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

And though we well know this Assembly, elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no powers equal to our own and that therefore to declare this act irrevocable would be of no effect in law, yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right.

Thus, taken out of context Jefferson appeared to be saying that ANY opinions, etc., were not to be "furnished contributions of money" by compulsion (i.e. by action of government).

As I said, that would mean, then, that Congress is a "sinful and tyrannical" institution, since it is essentially a paid service from compulsory taxes to spread opinions at least a few of which are BOUND to be "propagations of opinions in which" nearly everyone "disbelieves."

But in fact, Jefferson was talking about the COMPULSORY CONTRIBUTIONS TO RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS, which before the enacting of the U.S. Constitution four years later, was still routinely done in the former British colonies.

The moral is: You have to be very careful how you bandy quotes around. Often, taken out of context, their meanings can be twisted to suit the agenda of the one putting them forth. And that's intellectually dishonest.

79 posted on 07/29/2002 4:12:50 PM PDT by Illbay
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