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GOLD PLUMMETS - SPOT CHART
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html ^

Posted on 07/24/2002 8:29:42 AM PDT by Fitzcarraldo

Source: www.kitco.com



TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: goldprice; whoops
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To: Mr. Jeeves; edmund929
Once gold hits $332, JP Morgan will likely have to default on its gold derivative (short) positions, meaning they will need the biggest bailout in world history to stay alive...

Thanks for the "short explanation"...I saw the GATA guy on C-Span this a.m. but am too ignorant to understand the implications of what he was saying! I will check out the site, as it sure sounded like there was some dangerous skulduggery going on...

41 posted on 07/24/2002 9:06:04 AM PDT by 88keys
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To: steve50
Several years back the Hunt brothers were charged trying to fix it I think. They had it up to $8/oz if I remember correctly. They would have made an absolute fortune if it worked. Not sure what the penalty was.

It was back around 1981. They drove the price of silver up to around $50.00\ounce. I had a coin collection that was pushing $25,000 and I was only 16 (Whoops, I'm dated...).

42 posted on 07/24/2002 9:07:46 AM PDT by Axenolith
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To: steveegg
My broker called today just to touch base and ask if I had any ideas, I told him "Gold and lead, lead and gold."

;-)

43 posted on 07/24/2002 9:09:20 AM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: Mr. Jeeves
JP Morgan has over $23 trillion in total derivative exposure.

info source, PLS.

44 posted on 07/24/2002 9:09:40 AM PDT by 1234
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To: Axenolith
Thanks Axe. Getting up there myself so the memory isn't what it used to be. Sounds like you lost a bundle when it devalued
45 posted on 07/24/2002 9:10:03 AM PDT by steve50
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To: StriperSniper
Throw in some iron and you've got it.

All I know is that I definitely ain't buying into this market on my own, and my weekly 401k donation had better not go in in the middle of this sucker-bubble.

46 posted on 07/24/2002 9:11:26 AM PDT by steveegg
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To: arkfreepdom
Stay out of gold. That stuff is still 25% less than it was in the 70's.

If you remember, the 70's had some inflation problems. Thats like saying stay away from oil based fuels.
47 posted on 07/24/2002 9:12:19 AM PDT by Fyscat
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To: Republicus2001
No because all of the Gold stored in the WTC was really stored 3 blocks east in the basement vaults of the Federal Reserve Bank and the aux. at 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza B5. Unless of course you are talking about all of the gold stored in the couple of small Jewelery Store that were located in the WTC concourse?
48 posted on 07/24/2002 9:16:01 AM PDT by Woodman
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To: steve50
This is a major reason the metal should not be monetized.
49 posted on 07/24/2002 9:18:38 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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To: 1234
It's from the GATA guy, the guy who believes that the only thing keeping his gold from zooming to $2,500 a microgram is the Evil Banking Conspiracy.
50 posted on 07/24/2002 9:18:58 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: 1234

The Man Behind the Curtain

Among the day's most noteworthy rumor was that the Federal Reserve was convening an "emergency meeting" to deal with the market's meltdown in general and J.P. Morgan's derivatives exposure specifically.

A spokesman for the Fed did not return phone calls seeking comment (not that I expect it would have commented, anyway). Late Tuesday, Adam Castellani, a J.P. Morgan spokesman, called and said the rumors were "completely untrue and irresponsible."

At the end of 2002's first quarter, the notional value of derivatives contracts involving U.S. commercial banks and trust companies was $45.9 trillion, according to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency's bank derivatives report.

The OCC noted seven commercial banks accounted for almost 96% of the total notional amount of those derivative contracts, which are complex financial instruments that are used to hedge risk against and/or increase leverage to movements in various financial assets. J.P. Morgan Chase is far and away the most active participant in the derivatives market, with involvement in $23.2 trillion, or 50.5% of the total. ("Notional value" is the total value of the contract, and J.P. Morgan's direct exposure to those derivatives was $51 billion as of Dec. 31, or less than 1% of the notional value, according to the firm. About 80% of the company's exposure was with investment-grade counterparties.)

For some time now, years literally, the hard-core bears have been talking about a "sum of all fears" scenario involving J.P. Morgan's exposure to derivatives in general, and bearish bets on gold in particular.

Today, the price of gold fell 3.4% to $312.60 per ounce, its lowest close since July 8, while the dollar rallied sharply vs. the euro, which fell below parity to 98.62 cents vs. yesterday's close of $1.0080. The dollar also rallied against the yen, and the dollar index rose 1.95 to 107.08.

Given the greenback has recently been moving in the same direction as equities (i.e., down), while gold has been trading inversely (although more sideways-to-down of late), today's movements were somewhat curious.

Indeed, a person given to conspiracy theories might surmise the Fed did convene a meeting today and decided to intervene to boost the dollar and weaken gold in order to help alleviate pressure on money-center banks, such as J.P. Morgan and Citigroup.

From thestreet.com

51 posted on 07/24/2002 9:23:51 AM PDT by razorback-bert
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To: aristeides
who would take the other side of the bet?

Morgan and Citi were involved in the 'gold carry trade'. They leased gold from the Treasury at low interest rates (1% or so), sold it, and then invested the proceeds in gov't bonds. They made the spread and it added up to a lot. A nice business, as long as the price of gold doesn't rise. If goes up to much, they won't be able to cover their short positions, which are huge at this point (greater than the global annual production of gold) and the Treasury doesn't get their gold back.

52 posted on 07/24/2002 9:25:01 AM PDT by Soren
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To: 1234
The $24 Trillion Derivatives Monster
53 posted on 07/24/2002 9:27:51 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: StriperSniper
Thanks for the ping. This is worrisome to say the very least...
54 posted on 07/24/2002 9:29:00 AM PDT by dubyagee
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Find me a site that isn't in the business of selling gold discussing this issue.
55 posted on 07/24/2002 9:31:09 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: All
Gold charted over a year...


56 posted on 07/24/2002 9:36:44 AM PDT by ricer1
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To: hchutch
How did they get foiled?

They were not foiled by market forces, but by insiders changing the rules on the exchange (after taking up short positions for themselves). Here's an excerpt from an editorial posted on gold-eagle.com:

A similar thing happened in 1980 with the Hunt brothers. They [the exchange] basically changed the rules, and said their could be no more buying of silver...period. You couldn't buy it on the future's exchange. There could only be sales. When they closed the market down and reopened it, and only selling existed, well, as I stated in earlier in the show, when you have more sellers than buyers, the price goes down

57 posted on 07/24/2002 9:40:09 AM PDT by Soren
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To: Poohbah
Find me a site that isn't in the business of selling gold discussing this issue.

Its going to be hard because either your with gold or against it.
58 posted on 07/24/2002 9:40:50 AM PDT by Fyscat
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To: Poohbah
Does that negate the underlying danger in derivatives?
59 posted on 07/24/2002 9:41:38 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: ricer1
Thanks for the plot...gold never gets over $330...notice the curious rise and leveling off at $290+ between 4 and 18 Sept 2001.
60 posted on 07/24/2002 9:42:58 AM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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