My Stateless Neighbors: The Amish

Lew Rockwell ^ | 07/22/02 | William L. Anderson

[cornelis]

One of the myths of the Amish is that they have "made socialism work." While their strict Anabaptist version of Christianity is communitarian in nature, that does not make them socialists. First, Amish own their own property and businesses and are expected to work hard to make a living. Second, theirs is a religious, not socialistic community. Families are expected to care for others when there is genuine need.

It's gonna take more than a paragraph to convince anyone on this. But maybe this really is the clincher. They are not socialist because they own their own property and business.

[2banana]

I talk to the Amish every once in a while...

They do not get many converts (it seems all these environmentalists love their evil cars/electricity/telephones etc too much). The few they do get do not last more than a year

All Amish children spend a year "with the English" when they are 18 or so. Most come back to the Amish lifestyle. There is probably a good Ph.D study on how children prefer they way they are brought up to anything else (both Amish and non-Amish)...

Do not ever (in front of the Amish) make a slip of the tongue and call it a "simple life" - you will get a lit up!

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Most interesting fact emerging from this well-written article is fact that Amish have managed to emancipate themselves from the Social Security syste. How did they do that, and can others rely on that precedent to escape as well?

[Kerberos]

We also have many Amish here in the northern part of Indiana. I spent many a summer when I was a kid in and around their villages and towns.

The biggest thing I have always liked about them is that the do not find the need, as so many contemporary "Christians" seem to have, to push their religion onto others. If you want to know about their religion they will be more than happy to share it with you, but I have yet to have one try and "save" me without my asking.

[Slyfox]

Visiting a small city in Michigan where there are some Amish, I noticed that at the local bank they had their own parking space for horse-drawn buggy's.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Yup. A Saturday morning knock on the door will not be the Amish coming to preach.
The flip side is, the Amish are some of the biggest poachers of game (at least from my experience in Southern Iowa) in the territory.

[leadpenny]

Sounds like any number of towns in Hillsdale County, including Hillsdale.

[Kerberos]

"The flip side is, the Amish are some of the biggest poachers of game (at least from my experience in Southern Iowa) in the territory."

I have never heard of that being a problem with them in this state. I would find that to be somewhat unusual, for their character, but these days I suppose anything is possible.

[Don Joe]

"They do not get many converts (it seems all these environmentalists love their evil cars/electricity/telephones etc too much)."

Around my neck of the woods there's a sect called "Dunkards", which as near as I can tell are like Amish with cars, electricity, and phones. I'll never forget the time we were driving down the road, and got passed by an nice new car being driven by what looked like an Amish farmer with his wife.

[valkyrieanne]

Most interesting fact emerging from this well-written article is fact that Amish have managed to emancipate themselves from the Social Security syste. How did they do that, and can others rely on that precedent to escape as well?

How did they do it? Almost-universal marriage, and almost-universal childbearing, and a lot of it, and the "German Protestant work ethic," which makes the good old Protestant work ethic look like slacking. The grown children take care of the aging parents (they build "grandfather cottages" for them to live in on the farms.) While Amish do leave in their late teens and 20s, the birth rate more than makes up for it. Our problem is that *productive* people in "English" society have far too few children.

[Don Joe]

"Most interesting fact emerging from this well-written article is fact that Amish have managed to emancipate themselves from the Social Security syste. How did they do that, and can others rely on that precedent to escape as well??

When I was a minister (about 30 years ago, nondenominational Christian), I filled out an IRS form (I think it was #4-something-something) that exempted my income from ministry from SS, and also precluded me from drawing any SS later on in life from those earnings. Non-ministry earnings are completely separate, and are payable in both directions.

It was a "once in a lifetime" type filing, and I don't think it can be revoked. I don't know if the Amish use that form (hard to think they do, since it was "ministry-specific"), or something like it, or if they're "just exempt".

[Clovis_Skeptic]

Amish

Lots of info regarding the Amish, with a faq that addresses their opting out of Soc Sec sytem and stuff.

"Do the Amish pay taxes?"
"Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non-Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.

The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to social security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed."

[glory]

Do not ever (in front of the Amish) make a slip of the tongue and call it a "simple life" - you will get a lit up!


I wouldn't even do it outside of an Amish circle;-) It is a simple life in the things that matter, but it is a life of hard work! There are many Christian families actually attempting to work to a more "simple" lifestyle that I know, particularly the "quiverful" crowd. While they don't give up all modern conveniences, they have moved in baby steps towards things that don't seem so commen anymore--growing a small garden, canning it, sewing many of thier own clothes, ditching the television, homeschooling, etc. There certainly is at least a small movement among Christians towards this. You'll find many internet lists and sites even devoted to this(Lives of Simplicity, Back to Basics, etc) Personally, I think it is important to know the "old ways". I swear if any type of emergency happened in this country long term(no electric, water, etc) people would be wandering around aimlessly or (trying) to steal from thier more self sufficient neighbors. People have NO skills in these areas anymore. I'm sure some folks would adjust begrudgingly, but what of all these people used to having things handed to them?

[glory]

I was wondering the same thing, however I think part of it is that they accept no state assistance when they are old. This would require in most instances that you have a reliable family to count on to care for thier elderly. I don't know how many of those we have anymore in this country.

[TomSmedley]

All Amish children spend a year "with the English" when they are 18 or so. Most come back to the Amish lifestyle.

Barna surveys, I believe, indicate that the Amish retain 95% of their children. Next in line are the hard-core Calvinists, who retain about 90% of their kids. Bringing up in the rear are the generic evangelicals/fundamentalists, who keep about 20% of their kids. (80% of evangelical kids drop out of church within 5 years of leaving home).

I think the issue is public education. Amish and Calvinists shun that beast with revulsion and horror. Evangelicals unthinkingly "help themselves" to this "free" gift -- saving the cost of tuition, and only losing their children.

[Don Joe]

"Visiting a small city in Michigan where there are some Amish, I noticed that at the local bank they had their own parking space for horse-drawn buggy's."

The Meijers in Mt. Pleasant MI also has an "Amish area" in the parking lot.

BTW, the life isn't as idyllic as many presume. There is a certain amount of Amish crime, although until recently, they haven't been involved in the nastier stuff like drug dealing.

About 10 years ago, a friend who ran the County's Park & Rec dep't had an "unsolved crime" -- someone tore down the bath house at one of the rural parks. Several months later, a very scared Amish kid called him and confessed (I think after his father took the rod to him). When my friend asked how he did it (it didn't seem the kind of thing that could be done without "equipment" (like a truck), the kid very sheepishly said "we pulled it down with a horse and buggy".

He also told me that while the Amish were forbidden to have things like hot water on tap in their homes, they had no reservations about using the County facilities at thr park.

[glory]

I think that's the difference as well(public school). I know lot's of that 80% eventually come back, but I would like to spare my children that falling away if at all possible(we homeschool to God's glory).

[AnAmericanMother]

That's a pretty fancy horse . . . guess they don't have restrictions on "decorated" horses . . . I never saw a Paint harnessed to an Amish buggy before. A little light through the chest and back, but a beautiful head.