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Faith-based abortion?
WORLD magazine ^ | 7/27/02 | Gene Edward Veith

Posted on 07/22/2002 4:44:25 AM PDT by rhema

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To: rhema

"mainline" denominations = denominations with the fastest declining membership numbers


41 posted on 07/22/2002 9:11:54 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: rhema
Nothing warm and fuzzy about murdered babies! Or getting AIDS or some other STD because you think condoms will protect you every time.
42 posted on 07/22/2002 9:43:17 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: rhema
I was pleased to read on another thread here that highlights the movement in the evangelical community to go back to its anti-contraception roots. The evils of artificial contraception have led directly to abortion. When a conceived child is viewed as a "problem", and preventing conception is the "solution", then a "mistake" resulting in pregnancy is "taken care of" by an abortion.

No wonder Planned Parenthood thinks that it can get into the evangelical community with abortion ... abortion is the logical conclusion of artificial contraception.

Fortunately, I know many evangelicals and fundamentalists who are very, very pro-life and I am confident they won't be swayed. But I believe that the conservative Protestant churches must go back to their roots and condemn artificial contraception as the moral evil that it is.

And now more than ever, it is important for Catholics to reaffirm the teachings of the church and throw out their contraceptives. Many good Catholics have been sucked into the contraceptive mentality, leading to a liberal attitude on abortion (murder) and divorce. Thank God through the Holy Spirit that the Church has held firm on these important teachings even in the face of hate and ridicule by a modern and hedonistic culture.

43 posted on 07/22/2002 9:46:18 AM PDT by Gophack
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To: Gophack
When a conceived child is viewed as a "problem", and preventing conception is the "solution", then a "mistake" resulting in pregnancy is "taken care of" by an abortion.

You've just described the ideological platform of two of Minnesota's three gubernatorial candidates, both of whom would change no laws, proscribe no abortions, and trust "education" and contraception to -- mirabile dictu -- make abortion "[safe, legal and] rare."

44 posted on 07/22/2002 10:13:44 AM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema
Did I? Well, I didn't mean to. I oppose artificial contraception.
45 posted on 07/22/2002 10:17:19 AM PDT by Gophack
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To: rhema
Yet another reason why the Federal government shouldn't have anything to do with anything religious or "faith based."
46 posted on 07/22/2002 10:24:13 AM PDT by Stone Mountain
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To: Gophack
Did I? Well, I didn't mean to. I oppose artificial contraception.

I wasn't criticizing you, Gophack, I was just pointing out -- and I knew you couldn't have been expected to know the views of the candidates I cited -- how prevalent the pro-choicers' "more education and access to contraception will solve everything" mentality is. That mentality pervades politics as well as the churches which illegitimately claim to bear the name of Jesus Christ.

47 posted on 07/22/2002 10:33:18 AM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema
Over my dead body.
48 posted on 07/22/2002 10:34:48 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
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To: rhema
Good point.

49 posted on 07/22/2002 10:35:23 AM PDT by Gophack
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To: rhema
Most so-called "mainline" denominations—those who are members of the National Council of Churches—have long affirmed, as official church teaching, their belief in abortion.

Yeah, and that view is not Biblical. Thus, it is an illegitimate doctrine.

50 posted on 07/22/2002 10:38:21 AM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: rhema
Now Planned Parenthood, the nation's biggest producer of abortions, has its own programs that it calls "faith-based initiatives" designed to forge an alliance with clergy and mainline denominations. Planned Parenthood's goal is to offer sex-education classes and abortion counseling in churches.

No, throw them out on their ear.

People have to admit that the Catholic Church DOES stand firm on these "Culture of Death" issues. Viva Catholica!

51 posted on 07/22/2002 10:46:42 AM PDT by Salvation
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To: rhema
bump for later
52 posted on 07/22/2002 11:04:39 AM PDT by kancel
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To: rhema
bump for later
53 posted on 07/22/2002 11:04:42 AM PDT by kancel
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To: mc5cents; BibChr; logos
That is a wonderful quote. I had never seen it before but it could not be more right on. It truly is the point of it all. The battle today is the philosophy that can call the killing of innocents in the womb a "woman's choice" and morally acceptable. This is not merely a battle for the "hearts and minds" of people, it is literaly a battle of life and death. The culture of death. It is truly epochal.

One of the sites on which I've seen it is Lutherans for Life

Two must-read -- for Christians -- articles on that site are

1. Is Abortion an Election Issue?, some of whose paragraphs follow:

. . .If you really think about it, abortion is more than an "election issue."

God speaks to some of the political issues of our day but in a way that gives the Christian plenty of "wiggle" room. For example, God speaks about taxes. He tells us to give to "Caesar" what is his. However, He does not talk about tax structures or the IRS. Therefore, Christians may debate about how much they think "Caesar" should be taking or about how he should be taking it.

God speaks about salvation but not about how to save the Social Security system. Therefore, Christians may debate about the pros and cons of privatization.

God speaks about caring for the elderly but not about Medicare. Therefore, Christians may debate about the best way to help the elderly pay for prescriptions.

God speaks differently, however, about destroying innocent human life and there is no "Wiggle" room. He says: "You shall not murder."

We must not forget what abortion is. All the rhetoric surrounding abortion has deceptively blinded us to the truth. We hear it described as a "right," a "choice," or a "medical procedure." It becomes too easy -- even for the Christian -- to see abortion as just another one of those "election issues."

Think about it! What is a candidate who supports abortion rights really supporting? Abortion is not on a par with a woman's right to equal employment and equal pay.

. . .Christians must certainly use caution when it comes to political involvement. A congregation has no business preaching about tax credits or campaign finance reform and advising its members where they should stand on these kinds of issues.

However, the Body of Christ is compelled to "defend the cause of the weak and needy." The Church is compelled to "speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves" and to expose the "fruitless deeds of darkness." When a candidate for a government office promotes the sin of abortion, God's people must take action to oppose this sin and defend those affected by it.

The Church is compelled not just to expose the deeds of darkness but also to be a light to those trapped by the deeds of darkness. The Church's Gospel message of forgiveness is the only source of true hope and healing needed by those struggling with an abortion decision.

Abortion is an atrocity that takes the lives of over 3,000 children every day. Abortion is an atrocity that wounds women and destroys relationships. To be in favor of such an atrocity is symptomatic of a certain moral view of life that has broader implications as well. What kind of morality do we want in our leaders who will be making decisions about human embryo research, genetic manipulation, cloning, assisted suicide, and euthanasia? The redeemed people of God are compelled to take action in favor of a morality that reflects God's love for life as exemplified on the cross of His Son, Jesus Christ.

There is a little "Fred" in all of us. No one wants to be a "one issue" voter. But abortion is not an "election issue."

Abortion is a spiritual issue.

Abortion is a sin.

The Christian cannot vote for sin.

The Christian must vote for life and be a messenger of life.

2. Top Three Reasons Why Pastors Don't Proclaim Sanctity of Life Messages, two paragraphs of which follow:

Silence is not a neutral position. If the church will not speak on the wrongness of abortion its silence will speak of its rightness. Our silence will say to those who have grown up in this culture of death that what you hear out there is right. Our silence will say to the pregnant teen that everyone is right, you have no other choice, and abortion is not a wrong choice. Our silence will proclaim satan's favorite line, "Did God really say...?" And what will God say of our silence?

But most terrible of all, and I want to emphasize this again, Our silence will silence the Gospel. It will say to those caught up in the tentacles of abortion, it will say to those caught up in bad decisions about other end of life issues, "we are not going to talk about these sins, they're too terrible , the blood of Jesus doesn't flow this far."

54 posted on 07/22/2002 12:10:56 PM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema
designed to forge an alliance with clergy and mainline denominations.

Euphemistic for "dying but vocal liberal denominations who have traded the truth for acceptance by the world."

55 posted on 07/22/2002 2:46:18 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: goodieD
Nothing warm and fuzzy about murdered babies! Or getting AIDS or some other STD because you think condoms will protect you every time.

My "First Existential Church of the Warm Fuzzy" reference is to those nominal "believers" who will accept only the passages from God's Word that give them a warm fuzzy. If the Word reproves them for sins they're committing, they ignore it or rationalize it away.

56 posted on 07/22/2002 3:18:20 PM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema
Ha Ha HA HA Ha HA!!! Wait, you mean they're SERIOUS!?
57 posted on 07/22/2002 3:21:43 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: rhema
Exactly! I run into those types even on here. The favorite rant of the liberals and anarchist types is "Judge not.." Because they don't want any repercussions for their actions.
Of course they've taken a small part of that whole passage which is actually dealing with hypocrisy. I keep having to explain (even on here), that the Bible instructs us to judge men's ACTIONS, not their souls, which of course we couldn't do. If we NEVER judged anyone, might as well open the prison gates and let everyone free, let the pedophiles rape and murder children..why not? can't judge em.....
58 posted on 07/22/2002 4:57:22 PM PDT by goodieD
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To: JediGirl
interesting article bump

Really? You think so? I found I couldn't believe a word of it, one way or the other. The "World Magazine" is a Christian magazine, and you can see distain dripping in much of the word selection -- BUT -- it is otherwise cleverly written in sort of the detached faux objective neturality style of most modern journal writing.

I mean you get the same info/perspective as the most feverish rant, but it is delivered on a cool plate.

Scan down the responses of fellow Freepers. See the bile it generates.

But style wasn't its ultimate failing (though it was a tip off of the intellectual dishonesty inherent in the piece -- the same feeling I get from reading secular versions of the same style.) It's ulitmate failing was that it was written by a Christian with a Christian agenda -- and therefore is likely filled with useful distortions, mischaracterisations and half-truths. That's just the way those kinds of advocates are -- their fighting for our souls, after all, and any weapon is a-okay in that battle.

59 posted on 07/22/2002 7:58:29 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
In the meantime, many evangelical churches are agreeing with the defining characteristic of all liberal theology, that Christianity and the church must change in order to conform to the dominant culture. The only way to appeal to people today is to change the church's practices and to tone down its unpopular teachings, they say. That was the message of 20th-century liberal theology, and it is the message of many church-growth programs in 21st- century evangelical churches.

This is what I was interested in mostly. Fundamentalists don't see that this is almost necessary. For example, if fundamentalists continued to hold the position on women's rights that they did 50 years ago, Christianity would be an extremely unpopular religion. The fact that this guy is angered by this statement kind of makes me laugh if he can't see how the church has evolved as the rest of society moves forward.

60 posted on 07/23/2002 12:30:06 AM PDT by JediGirl
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