Biden backs letting soldiers arrest civilians

Washington Times ^ | 7/22/02 | Joyce Howard Price

[kattracks]

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., Delaware Democrat, yesterday strongly endorsed giving soldiers the power to arrest American civilians.

Interviewed yesterday on "Fox News Sunday," Mr. Biden, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the military from exercising police powers in this country, should be re-examined and "has to be amended."

[John Locke]

Just to mention the most famous historical example: the crossing of the Rubicon in 49BC by Julius Caesar. The beginning of the transition of Rome from a Republic into an Empire.

Today, we stand at the same watershed. And since so few of us remember history, I fear we are bound to repeat it.

[Night Hides Not]

The army is conservative here if they end up ruling the government will become smaller and more conservative as well.

I have to disagree with you on this! Based on my experience of 8 years active duty, and living in a military town for 20 years (Fort Bliss/El Paso), the vast majority of military members are quite liberal when it comes to big government, particularly when it comes to the defense budget as a whole.

Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, which is alive and well today. Rumsfeld's drive to revamp and organize our military is being fought tooth and nail by those whose power and incomes depend on the size of their budgets. The battle over the Crusader system is a case in point.

The posse comitatus statutes have served our country well for decades. Let's keep them intact.

[steve50]

Just a terrorist attack or two after we hit Iraq. I'm sure the paperwork is done, they just need an emergency to implement it. Market in the tank, war in Iraq, a few domestic terrorist acts and we'll be begging them to make us a police state.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
--Julius Caesar

[Tench_Coxe]

Well, technically the transition to Empire was a bit longer. All one has to do is look at Sulla. But Caesar finally committed and that is typically seen as the last nail in the coffin.

Another poster on this thread actually seemed rather cheery at the prospect. Caesar sought to save Rome by his actions, much like the rationale put forth by the poster.

Seems there's a lot of folks on this forum that are excited. I might remind them that for every Marcus Aurelius, there are three or four Caligulas or Neros waiting in the wings.

[jordan8]

I was stopped by a soldier
says he "You are a swine"
He hit me with his rifle
And kicked me in the groin
I begged and I pleaded,
Oh, my manners were polite
But sure, all the time I'm thinking
Of my little Armalite

[steamroller]

I have to wonder how the military was legally utilized to put down riots in Detroit and LA(twice).These were federal troops,not national guardsmen.I know the 82nd Airborne was sent into Detroit in 1967.What was the legal basis for this?I am not asking a trick question-I really don't know.

[steamroller]

He was probably working under intimidation from some crappy federal court injunction.You wouldn't believe the obstacles that the courts and bureaucrats put in the way of INS agents doing their jobs.I always managed to make plenty of arrests in spite of the commie infestation of the agency.The only times I was threatened with disciplinary action was for doing my job.Since I knew I was on solid ground,I never backed down and never got actually suspended,reprimanded,etc.I never got more than one promotion and I spent my whole career on the bricks where I have to say I was happiest.Picturing myself as a pencil pushing admin turd doesn't compute.I am sorry that you had such an Alice-in-Wonderland experience.

[Redbob]

I'm not sure the INS needs 10,000 more officers, so much as it needs CLEAR DIRECTION, that what we want to do is KEEP OUT illegal aliens.
A clear mission would do wonders for the INS' effectiveness.

[dmz]

please name for me the countries under a military or right wing dictatorship that you would prefer to live in (either current or historical) as compared to the present day US.

[bok]

So military rule isn't unprecedented in the united states since it was used against civilians in the former confederate states after the civil war?

[weikel]

The government in this country is getting bigger and bigger and nothing within the system is going to stop it. So eventually the government in this country will be a left wing communist dictatorship unless the government is overthrown some how. A military coup would not save the Republic true but it would change the form of the dictatorship from left wing/totalitarian/commie/police state to a more right wing one more reminscent of Pinochet in Chile. Of course I assume from your name your from the DU so you would prefer the commie dictatorship( well at least till you have to live under it).

[weikel]

The military budget would increase true( which Im in favor of btw) but the military budget is only around 16% of the Federal Budget now. If whoever the El Supremo is axes all socialist programs and the local pork of Congressman dissapear our taxes will still be much lower.

[weikel]

Well you mean what form of government I'd prefer well Pinochet of Chile's government comes to mind.

[thepitts]

How do we arrest Biden?

When you figure this out let me know.

[Noumenon]

Once the Democratic Global Socialist scum regain control of the apparatus of the state, they will not hesitate to use the this and other provisions of the Patriot Act to ruthlessly suppress dissent.

They are in fact counting on that very thing.

God help us all, because that's when the killing starts. The lessons of history are very clear on that point.

[Noumenon]

"I might remind them that for every Marcus Aurelius, there are three or four Caligulas or Neros waiting in the wings."

Or worse. Caligula and Nero were pikers and amateurs compared to the monsters of the last century and this one. If history has taught us anything at all, it that there are things worse than death, and that it is far better to go down with a rifle in your hand than to submit to the horrors of the power-lusters.

[taxcontrol]

Lets see, 10,000 more officers at $35,000 per comes to $350,000,000.

Or $500 bounty paid per illegal reported to INS by local authorities. $500 fine if the "illegal" in question is acutally here legally. INS would pay the local authorities $500 and the local authorities would pay the citizen that provided the tip $250. At that rate, you could capture about 700,000 illegals per year without the management overhead. Plus you would help out local police department budgets.

I could make quite a living "riding range" between Texas and California.

Just my .02

[VOR78]

I have no problems with putting troops on the borders to keep illegals out, but those troops should never have authority over US citizens. Bad idea. They should never have the ability to arrest US citizens, period. Such a move is extremely dangerous. That's an implementation of martial law, and will likely lead down that slippery slope to a military dictatorship.

[hoosierham]

I sure look forward to being shot or robbed by right -wing militarists; they are so much nicer than left -wing militarists.

What have you been smokin' ?

For a start, any dictatorship will clamp down on dissent (bye, bye freedom of speech (and FreeRepublic)), will confiscate arms (weapons, computers, chemicals) from those not favored by the military (our victorious and beneficient Allied armies DISARMED the partisans who were both brave enough to fight the Nazis and stupid enough to let our troops see their guns)An occupying army that did not disarm the population would be something new