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To: NEPA
There's something I don't understand about this case. If the guy doesn't have custody and the child is a practising Christian who has no problem with the Pledge, how does the father have standing to pursue the case? If the premise is the child is being harmed and the reality is she isn't, how did the case ever get off the ground? Can some Freeper lawyer please explain?

Newdow's case was dismissed in the lower court based on a ruling that the claim failed to state a cause of action. This is a preliminary ruling based only on the allegations of the complaint. This means the case never went to trial and nothing ever had to be proved, only alleged.

The appellate court (9th Circuit) reviews only the record from the court below. It does not make any findings of fact. Therefore, for the purpose of the appeal it had to take Newdow's allegations as true.

Now, where Newdow got too-clever-by-half was when he started gloating about his victory and said something like "it never was about my daughter, I just had to play the game to get it through the system." By doing that he basically admitted the case was a sham.

The federal courts do not countenance frivolous pleadings. There is even a special rule, Rule 11, addressing sanctions for such conduct.

While most people think the 9th Circuit took a mulligan on the ruling by staying it until further review, I believe they were well within their rights to stay it to consider imposing sanctions for sham pleading.

43 posted on 07/17/2002 1:57:07 PM PDT by Boatlawyer
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To: Boatlawyer
Thank you for that explanation. You made it where even I could understand it.
59 posted on 07/17/2002 2:16:36 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Boatlawyer
Your explanation is spot on. Methinks Mr. Newdow is gonna have a lot of 'splainin' to do before a not very happy federal judge to avoid Rule 11 sanctions when the appellate fireworks are over.
62 posted on 07/17/2002 2:25:19 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Boatlawyer
"it never was about my daughter, I just had to play the game to get it through the system"

In other words : "It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

64 posted on 07/17/2002 4:00:51 PM PDT by Fred Hayek
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To: Boatlawyer
Isn't this called barratry?

I thought barratry was illegal, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not an attorney, but a translator who deals mainly with legal documents, so it could be that I don't have my facts straight. This is probably because there's no big money in charging people with barratry, for which reason nobody is ever going to file an international case that needs the services of a translator.

However, I'm curious: is there any way that a person who files a frivolous and harassing lawsuit, in which he does not have standing, can be punished/sued for his actions?
66 posted on 07/17/2002 4:10:56 PM PDT by livius
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To: Boatlawyer
Thanks for the explanation. So why didn't the Ninth Circuit just reverse on the issue for failure to state a claim, decide nothing else, and remand to the district court for determination of all other issues, so that the appellate court would have a full record if the case came up again on appeal? Since whether Newdow has standing depends on the facts, how could the Ninth Circuit decide that he did have standing without a full factual record?
70 posted on 07/18/2002 5:34:29 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: Boatlawyer
It does not appear to me that any of the defendants challenged the father's standing, or at least the claim that the child was harmed, at the district court level. Seems pretty elemental to me. Had this allegation been challenged, the defendants could have sought discovery on the issue and learned that at least one of the bases for the suit was fraudulent. I seem to recall hearing from somewhere, however, that Newdork might have standing all by his lonesome, although it would have made the case tougher to win that way. (Harm to a mature adult vs. [alleged] harm to an impresionable child). I hope the defense lawyers have gotten a much-needed clue!
75 posted on 07/18/2002 6:59:24 AM PDT by pettifogger
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To: Boatlawyer
oops. just read your full post re: the Motion to Dismiss being successful. should have paid attention. thanks for setting us all straight.
76 posted on 07/18/2002 7:03:22 AM PDT by pettifogger
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To: Boatlawyer
Thanks for your posting here.

I am in a debate with a liberal claiming to be a Lawyer (he is not)and when I argued that the Dad has no standing because he cannot assert an injury has taken place I was given:

"The whole point you glossed over in your argument is this: There are several kinds of "remedies" you can seek with the courts. There are equitable remedies, TRO's, (temporary restraining orders), temporary and permanent injunctions and actions at law. The "standing" you were talking about doesn't apply to actions at law - only equitable remedies. To the extent BOTH are sought, one can be denied, but the constitutionality itself can STILL be ruled on, which of course, it was. You see the difference?"

"Remember when I asked you if you knew what the "ex parte" part that you quoted in your "legal" argument meant? You never answered and I know why."

"What you don't understand that PART of that legal action filed with the courts was for injunctive relief, i.e. a temporary restraining order which is required before you can get an injunction, temporary or permanent. That was probably denied but the court still went on to decide the case."

"So if "standing" in the way you used the term, was required for the court, then the court would never have ruled (the it did or otherwise). So whether there was the kind of "damage" or "injury" as YOU used the term is irrelevant and off point because the action at law, i.e. the final determination that the "god" part of the pledge being constitutional or unconstitutional can still be ultimately determined...and, as it turns out, it was."

"The court felt that, although the "under god" (which, by the way, was never in the constitution to begin with and was "inserted" in 1954 or thereabouts and the constitution was never, as far as I know, amended to say that) is unconstituional. Why? Sandra Day O'Conner said it best when she said the danger, the "injury" if you will, is that someone who does NOT believe in god will be made uncomfortable with the pressure of having to recite it or be ostracized for not doing so. Now ask yourself who is made to feel uncomfortable by NOT reciting a pledge with "god" in it?"

Please help me- Am I wrong in asserting that the dad needs legal standing through the daughter?

Every article I have read on this constituioanl issue has sated the need for standing throuh a concrete injury.

88 posted on 07/20/2002 8:23:17 PM PDT by Kay Soze
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