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To: Undivided Heart
In NT, in I Corinthians 6, there's a laundry list of things that will prevent one from inheriting the kingdom. In the NKJV, the word homosexual is used in this list. A Greek Orthodox gay had argued that this interpretation comes from two words in the Greek, which turn out to be "man-bed". He said that Paul, if he meant homosexual, he would have used the common word used at the time, but instead chose this phrase. What do you think?

The Greek word for homosexual in 1 Cor. 6 and 1 Tim 1 is arsenokoites:

1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

Every Greek Lexicon (even in every language outside of English) defines arsenokoites as homosexual. No other definition is given.

This word comes from two Greek words, arrhen (which means male) and koite:
1) a place for laying down, resting, sleeping in
1a) a bed, couch
2) the marriage bed
2a) of adultery
3) cohabitation, whether lawful or unlawful 3a) sexual intercourse

Koite is the word from which we get our English word coitus.

Now notice that this word (arsenokoites) appears in the Septuagint (the Greek version of the OT written around 250 B.C.)
_meta_ arsenos _ou koimêthêsê koitên gynaikos_ (Lev. 18:22)
_koimêthê meta arsenos koitên gynaikos_ (Lev. 20:13)

These are the same verses which clearly denounce homosexuality in the OT.

The Bible of Paul's day was the Septuagint. He midfully applied the Levitical verses to 1 Cor. 6 and 1 Tim. 1. It is not just a coincidence.

In the English Bible, here are all the expressions used in 1Cor6:9- they are all 10 in agreement:

"sodomite" - NRSV (common term for homosexuals in early 20th century)
"abusers of themselves with mankind" - KJV
"homosexual perverts" - Todays English Version
"homosexual offenders" - NIV
"homosexuals" - NKJV
"homosexuals" - RSV
"homosexuals" - Amplified
"homosexuals" - Phillips
"homosexuals" - New Century
"homosexuals"- the New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1,000's of scholars and language experts agree that the scriptures clearly condemn homosexuality.
That is why all Bible translations, even those in foriegn languages say the same thing.

Even Aristotle and Lucian used
"arsenokoitai" referring to homosexual behavior.
(P. Michael Ukleja, "Homosexuality in the New Testament," _Bibliotheca Sacra_ 140: 560 (Oct.-Dec. 1983), 351.)

181 posted on 07/16/2002 4:12:30 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Jorge
This is good. I hadn't thought about the Septuagint angle. The "external" references to Aristotle and Lucian are partcularly damning.
185 posted on 07/16/2002 4:43:48 PM PDT by Undivided Heart
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To: Jorge; All
"1,000's of scholars and language experts agree that the scriptures clearly condemn homosexuality. That is why all Bible translations, even those in foriegn languages say the same thing." Bump
193 posted on 07/16/2002 8:09:26 PM PDT by EdReform
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To: Jorge; Undivided Heart; ponyespresso
This word comes from two Greek words, arrhen (which means male) and koite: 1) a place for laying down, resting, sleeping in 1a) a bed, couch 2) the marriage bed 2a) of adultery 3) cohabitation, whether lawful or unlawful 3a) sexual intercourse

Let me flesh this out a little (I just love this word choice here)

As Jorge pointed out Arsenokoites (Strongs number 733) is always translated homosexual (abusers of themselves with mankind etc). It comes from Arrhen (strongs 730) which always means male and Koite (Strongs number 2845) as defined above. Lets step through the possible definitions and see why 'homosexual' is the only valid translation here. 1. Male + place for laying down. So we have a male bed. Beds are neither male nor female. And if they were, why would we care that male furniture can't enter the kingdom? Fails the makes sense test. This one doesn't work.

2. Male + marriage bed. Since beds aren't male or female (see above) what about male marriage? We know that male to male marriage did not exist in Paul's time in Judaism (as it is outlawed in Leviticus). Therefore this definition is not internally consistent. Doesn't work.

3. Male + cohabitation. Makes sense on the outside, males can live together. In fact in Jewish tradition of those days a man often lived in his father's house until he got married. I would assume sharing the same room and possibly even the same bed with his brothers (looking at the size of families back then and the archeological size of the houses back then this is almost a certainty). This was both normal and allowed in the culture at that time. So, why would someone doing what was allowed and normal be disqualified from entering the kingdom? I can't come up with a reason. Seems this one fails internal consistency also. Doesn't work.

Which leads us to
3a Male + sexual intercourse. Since male sexual intercourse is already outlawed in Leviticus it makes perfect sense that they would be banned from the kingdom. Since all other possible definitions violate internal consistency of the Word this is the only possible translation.

Arsenkoites means homosexuals.

Note however that in this same scripture God tells us that the condition is curable. 1 Cor 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

"And such were some of you" Some of the target audience were homosexuals BUT ARE NOT ANYMORE! Homosexuality is curable!!!

GSA(P)

199 posted on 07/17/2002 8:08:54 AM PDT by John O
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