Posted on 07/15/2002 10:42:59 AM PDT by ExSoldier
Until our government begins to act like it is truly interested in this country, I can't see this as doing anything but creating a network of snitches, who will do so for their own personal reasons, and to keep the citizenry in line for the rulers 'who know what they are doing'. (Do they ever!)
AmericanInTokyo, I will tolerate greater restrictions than already exist on the freedoms of innocent Americans ONLY when our employees have done everything possible short of shredding the Constitution to ensure our security.
"I'll/We'll make it safer" has been the traditional clarion call of tyrants in all times and in all countries. Don't be too quick to give up your rights (and everyone else's), because you'll not see them restored anytime soon (or ever). Notice how the "War on Terror" is being labeled as "indefinite?" This is a recipe for the indefinite suspension of our rights.
I see your point. But Old Ben, as good as a man he is, was not God, nor did he even envision the amount of personal liberties that were suspended both by de-facto government command and voluntarily by the American People, for a four year period during World War II. Rationing. Censorship. Suspension of certain communicative rights or rights of association. Organizations banned (German American Bund or Amaterasu Kai (Japanese). Civil defense groups, including counter espionage collaborations. Report all that is suspicious. We have been through all of this before.
Need examples?
I dispute the whole notion that we are not at war. We are indeed at war and it is against a deadly enemy. To deal with homeland defense at a time like this, with our porous borders and sleeper agents here (already proven), without a strategy that includes the cooperation of citizens to be vigilant and organized, to me seems irrational and quite silly, IMHO. I guaran damn tee you that you would not be crying out about 'liberties' from a cot on a subway platform asphixiating from sarin or VX gas. Ask Japanese attacked by Aum Shinrikyo seven years ago.
What should the "citizen spies" (clever, loaded term for sake of debate) do, then, if their neighbors fit the profile and are taking photographs of damns or bridges, or have been blabbering at strip joints that they are going to take down a tower, or are purchasing large amounts of fertilizer and Ryder trucks?
Further, I respectfully have to dispute your interpretation that we are not at war. As I write, if you are anywhere near Los Angeles, San Francisco and certainly NYC and Washington DC, your sky is being patrolled by CAP (Combat Air Patrol) on alert, with hot missiles on board, under the war operating rules to shoot to kill. What activity are our troops in Afghanistan currently engaged in? Are you aware of the Declaration of War issued against the United States by an organization called 'al-Qaeda'? Just wondering.
"I'll/We'll make it safer" has been the traditional clarion call of tyrants in all times and in all countries. Don't be too quick to give up your rights (and everyone else's), because you'll not see them restored anytime soon (or ever). Notice how the "War on Terror" is being labeled as "indefinite?" This is a recipe for the indefinite suspension of our rights.
EXTREMELY well said.
But seriously speaking, you have my curiosity now. Q: What level of national, regional or local coordination, then, do you suggest (in terms of defense against terrorist acts withing the US, and at which level, and how should it be structured, who should structure it, then?
There's your problem. Self-directed citizen vigilance is a good thing, because most people have a reasonable idea of what is worth reporting to the authorities. Citizens being organized and directed by the state is a bad thing, because the authorities are in a position to issue self-serving descriptions of what ought to be reported.
The fact that the authorities have not seen fit to take obvious measures (e.g. arming pilots, seriously tightening up on travel from known hotbeds of terrorist support) makes it very difficult to believe that their sole agenda is legitimate protection of national security.
No matter what you say - we have a right to protect our families and we will do so. I would gladly report suspicious activity, I will gladly report seeing young girls seemingly held against their wishes in a van. This same thing goes on daily right now and has even before the attack.
Americans have been spoiled into thinking they were safe in this country. That is no longer the case because there are too many ways radical groups can inflict harm if they intend to go after citizens instead of militaries. For us to ignore this fact because we don't want to have to watch those arounds us is to let it happen.
They want to take us down - they want the riches this country has because they never build anything of their own.
Our only real protection is for all citizens to band together against those trying to overtake us and show them it won't work here - we are not mindless idiots that depend on the government to defend us - we will defend ourselves too. It that means reporting that mideastern men are taking flying lessons to learn only how to take off - not how to land, then so be it.
Of course, any plan to protect this country will be an invasion to many here. They are too use to being totally safe in America. That is not the case any longer but they have not realized that yet.
The only way something would be reported is if it was suspicious. What makes them think the government wants to waste time looking at them if they are innocent when there are those out there trying to harm us?
Would they want to set old Joe up for search, mindlessly go through his computer nonsense, plow through the junk in his papers, eavesdrop on his inane conversations? What do they get from this other than death from boredom? Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of people. How much manpower does that take? How much would that cost? Surely, they have other things they would rather spend the money on. Meanwhile the terrorists are setting off their bombs.
I can believe 12, yes 12, impossible things before breakfast, but I do not for one moment believe this is being instituted solely to protect us from terrorists. If our government actually cared about terrorism they would be acting just a little like they were. Instead, we are being so politically correct, we can't protect ourselves. The government is doing just a few show and tell things to make us think they are doing something, but until they begin to profile as they should, close our borders, and stop the corruption in the visa program, there is no way they can justify this action.
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