US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

smh ^ | 7/15/2002 | Ritt Goldstein

[TLBSHOW]

US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens as domestic informants in a program likely to alarm civil liberties groups.

The Terrorism Information and Prevention System, or TIPS, means the US will have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany through the infamous Stasi secret police. The program would use a minimum of 4 per cent of Americans to report "suspicious activity".

Civil liberties groups have already warned that, with the passage earlier this year of the Patriot Act, there is potential for abusive, large-scale investigations of US citizens.

As with the Patriot Act, TIPS is being pursued as part of the so-called war against terrorism. It is a Department of Justice project.

Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.

A pilot program, described on the government Web site www.citizencorps.gov, is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants participating in the first stage. Assuming the program is initiated in the 10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people.

Historically, informant systems have been the tools of non-democratic states. According to a 1992 report by Harvard University's Project on Justice, the accuracy of informant reports is problematic, with some informants having embellished the truth, and others suspected of having fabricated their reports.

Present Justice Department procedures mean that informant reports will enter databases for future reference and/or action. The information will then be broadly available within the department, related agencies and local police forces. The targeted individual will remain unaware of the existence of the report and of its contents.

The Patriot Act already provides for a person's home to be searched without that person being informed that a search was ever performed, or of any surveillance devices that were implanted.

At state and local levels the TIPS program will be co-ordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which

was given sweeping new powers, including internment, as part of the Reagan Administration's national security initiatives. Many key figures of the Reagan era are part of the Bush Administration.

The creation of a US "shadow government", operating in secret, was another Reagan national security initiative.

[WhiteGuy]

The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens as domestic informants.....

Am I to believe that this sort of "SS" activity would cease if we just had a "republican controlled house & senate"?

Oh wait.....what if this "power" fell into the hands of the democraats??????

I guess we are in deep doody.......

[Darth Sidious]

Curious how the usual Bush harem hasn't chimed in yet to defend this.

[Japedo]

I guess the only thing we really don't see eye-to-eye on is the need for a very strong intelligence capability in the federal government.

Question is this... Strong intelligence against what? I can think of a zillion way's this can be abused. If you read the Patriot act...Under :TITLE I--ENHANCING DOMESTIC SECURITY AGAINST TERRORISM
Sec. 102. Sense of Congress condemning discrimination against Arab and Muslim Americans

It basically say's not to profile.
This being said, If I witnessed for example people video taping my water plant, I would have sense enough to contact the authorities ASAP, as I whole heartily know Others I know would do the same. Why must anyone have to "SIGN" up to the TIPS program? Why does it even exist?

[steve-b]

And we all know the feds certainly aren't going to waste their time investigating 65-year-old white females

You must never have watched the Keystone Kops of airport security in action.

[Fixit]

Where are the "One in 24 Americans" and "4 percent" figures coming from?

The pilot program mentions 1,000,000 participants in 10 test areas around the country. He assumes that the 10 test areas will be the ten largest cities, then he computes:

Assuming the program is initiated in the 10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people.

The 10 cities in the U.S. had 23,899,236 people in the 2000 census.

See http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

Top 10 Cities in the U.S. by Population and Rank, 1990 and 2000

	4/1/2000 census population	4/1/1990 census population	Numeric population change 1990–2000	Percent population change 1990–2000	Size rank 1990	Size rank 2000
New York, N.Y.	8,008,278	7,322,564	685,714	9.4	1	1
Los Angeles, Calif.	3,694,820	3,485,398	209,422	6.0	2	2
Chicago, Ill.	2,896,016	2,783,726	112,290	4.0	3	3
Houston, Tex.	1,953,631	1,630,553	323,078	19.8	4	4
Philadelphia, Pa.	1,517,550	1,585,577	–68,027	–4.3	5	5
Phoenix, Ariz.	1,321,045	983,403	337,642	34.3	10	6
San Diego, Calif.	1,223,400	1,110,549	112,851	10.2	6	7
Dallas, Tex.	1,188,580	1,006,877	181,703	18.0	8	8
San Antonio, Tex.	1,144,646	935,933	208,713	22.3	9	9
Detroit, Mich.	951,270	1,027,974	–76,704	–7.5	7	10

But, the 10 largest counties had 36,621,296 people, according to The US census.

100 Largest Counties: July 1, 2001
Rank	County	State	July 1, 2001 Estimate	April 1, 2000 Population Estimates Base	April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2001 Numeric Population Change	April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2001 Percent Population Change
1	Los Angeles	California	9,637,494	9,519,338	118,156	1.2
2	Cook	Illinois	5,350,269	5,376,741	-26,472	-0.5
3	Harris	Texas	3,460,589	3,400,578	60,011	1.8
4	Maricopa	Arizona	3,194,798	3,072,149	122,649	4.0
5	Orange	California	2,890,444	2,846,289	44,155	1.6
6	San Diego	California	2,862,819	2,813,833	48,986	1.7
7	Kings	New York	2,465,286	2,465,326	-40	0.0
8	Miami-Dade	Florida	2,289,683	2,253,362	36,321	1.6
9	Dallas	Texas	2,245,398	2,218,899	26,499	1.2
10	Queens	New York	2,224,516	2,229,379	-4,863	-0.2

Of course, this all artificially assumes that the 10 test areas will be limited to strictly defined geographic boundaries, consisting solely of the largest population centers in the country.

[weikel]

LOL

[Bohemund]

Thanks for the info.

I guess the problem is with Goldstein's headline, though your point about whether the participants will be strictly limited to specific geographic boundaries is a good one.

[NMC EXP]

I noticed that too. "Good for gov't, but bad for the governed" is what I think was implyed;-)

Subtle humor or freudian slip on the writers part?

I vote freudian slip.

Regards

J.R.

[Rebelbase]

"Bush harem "

LOL! Poke'm with a stick why don't you!

[weikel]

bump

[archy]

Dear god is this Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany?

More like South Vietnam during the late 1960s-early '70s when the computerized reliability analysis and civilian population dossier databases created for the *Operation Phoenix* program were established.

After all, we were at war....

[Classicaliberalconservative]

I was being sarcastic.

[Shermy]

Thanks for the ping. At your suggestion I read your post 204. I too have concerns about the Patriot Act. As for TIPS, you bring up a very interesting point a central data base, and false reports. I suppose these "exist" somewhere anyway, decentralized in local P.D.'s, whereever. That scurrilous accusations can be viewed by many more people, not hidden by the difficulty of being stored in diffuse places, is disturbing. I suppose the counter-argument would be that this is the price of better efficiency, or it's not a price at all. Nonetheless, something that is troubling and worth thinking about much.

[Draco]

So you don't have a citation? You mentioned a website. I assume that means you do not have something you can actually back up the baseless claims made here. Think about it. Millions employed by the US government for spying purposes? Just imagine all the black helicopters they will need.

[Betty Jo]

The website was given in replies # 8 and # 31.

Here ya go, again

http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html

Looks to me from the site, that it is a VOLUNTEER effort, meaning our beloved leaders will not be paying the tip givers, just the tip takers.

TIPS is also on the White House website, and FEMA's.

[Betty Jo]

666 !!!!!!!

[Betty Jo]

Please dont think you have to register to report a tip.

Just pick up the phone and call ypur police ,or county sheriff,or FBI.

Do you have any tips you would like to share with us right now?

[Betty Jo]

Thank you!

[Betty Jo]

# 133-Thank you!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

In the 1950's, it would have been called a "responsible citizenry".

Now days it is likend to Nazi'ism, and spying on INNOCENT citizens.

I really doubt my mailman/woman or my neighbors are going to call any authority on us. Why? Because we are not behaving wierd. Because we know each other,..and maybe that is the simplest thing we can do.. get to at least KNOW who your neighbors are.

This is the only way we can be assured that "if" there is someone gathering or plotting to harm Americans we can have a higher percentage of them be caught. It will take enormous pressure off the resources (Agents) who would need to check these kinds of things out,..and believe me,.. they are not going to chase after shadows.

Americans (SOME) have gotten so feely touchy that they are willing to sacrifice their own kids, family and friends, for the enemy, so the enemy can have "rights".

Last night, a little girl was stolen from in front of her grandmothers home, I'd like to see the authorities be able to WALK in to any home that they even THINK might have her. I for one would have no problem if they wanted to look in my home if a child was missing, and I would want that if my child was stolen. Time is precious. Just recently a little boy was murdered in the same complex that his parents lived in. The World has gone crazy with these alleged rights. What about protecting kids? Or innocent victims of any age?

Time to get our priorities straight. I've said it before,..and I'll say it again, I don't fear my own government, I only fear the rights we are giving terrorists and criminals. I think this administration is doing exactly what needs to be done. Undoing YEARS of mamby pamby laws that are only protecting those wishing to do Americans harm.

Just MHO