Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping - Daily News & Case Discussion Thread - Day 40

07/14/02 - Sunday - Day 40 | Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping - Daily News & Case Discussion Thread - Day 40

[Jolly Green]

The man who took Elizabeth cut a window screen and crawled inside the imposing three-story hillside house, a police spokesman said. "What are you going to do with me?" she asked him, her sister later recounted to her parents. His response was that he was "maybe" taking her hostage.

I vaguely remember reading that article, but had forgotten about the "maybe". Thanks for the reminder.

I do know that the police knew from the first minutes that no one went in or out of the window.

[CindyDawg]

No more news about the van, yet? I was thinking that if the police responded promptly they should have located it by now. If it's her (or any other child in danger) I pray they are found soon. CD

[Wild Irish Rogue]

My 16 yr old Springer is sleeping here at my feet. He used to be a great protector,but within the last year,he has become deaf. Sometimes, he sees the flag waving through the front window and the motion sets him off, so he starts barking. My 13 yr old Dachs has just recently gone deaf. Now that both dogs are deaf and unable to hear the doorbell and other noises,it makes you realize how important they were, as a first line of defense. Besides being all around sweeties.

[nmh]

It is an interesting article and the odds do not support a happy conclusion here:

Excerpt:

..."Stranger abductions are perpetrated by individuals completely unknown to the child. Stranger abductions account for only 200-300 of all non-family abductions.5 These cases are defined as those in which the child is: (1) taken by a stranger and (2) killed; or ransomed; or kept overnight; or transported more than 50 miles; or taken with the intent to permanently retain.6 According to the most recent study, approximately half the children abducted by a stranger are murdered and, of those, the vast majority (74%) are dead within three hours of the abduction.7 The primary motive in the child abduction murder is sexual assault.8"

"All victims of non-family attempted or actualized abductions were "average" children, leading normal lives and were typically low-risk victims.9 Seventy-six per cent were girls and the median age was slightly over eleven. In 80% of the cases, the initial contact between the killer and the victim was within 1/4 mile of the victim's residence and the majority of cases (57%) were based solely on opportunity.10"

[cherry]

"I do know that the police knew from the first minutes that no one went in or out of the window."

how do you know that?.....the cops as far as I remember have never clarified how the perp came in...and even the story about the cutting from the inside has never been answered....

[TheDon]

I think he told her what he thought would keep her from screaming bloody murder. "Shut up" would not be a very good response. The "maybe" is probably the most significant part of the statement.

[Rotan]

I think the gun had more to do with keeping her quiet than anything he said. If he said it just to placate her, why not go the extra mile and say "I'm going to hold you hostage" instead of "maybe"? Surely, he had a better chance of cooperation if he flat out lied about it. Just my opinion, though.

Just trying to hold out hope. In my eyes, until a body is found, she's alive.

[Bella]

I currently have a yorkie, shepherd, and dane.

I have two Rotties :-)

[whenigettime]

Wow, thanks for all that info!!

[whenigettime]

"I would have also taken a Sheltie if the opportunity had presented itself. They are very, very good with kids. They look like a Collie pup, but never get any larger"

Thanks for your input. I recall the Shelties my cousins had, they were very loyal dogs. Can't recall if they shed or not (yes, it's an issue with me..).

[Vinomori]

The Globe, July 23, 2002

Cops investigating the shocking kidnapping of Utah teen Elizabeth Smart believe her 9 year old sister Mary Katherine may be unconsciously hiding some of the chilling details and holds the key to solving the crime.

Although Mary Katherine has been interviewed four times by experts in crimes involving children...the investigators have asked if there are facts her unconscious mind could be covering up.

"Each time (she) has been questioned, the details of her story have remained consistent," says a source close to the case... But they recognize the extreme terror she experienced ...may have caused her to obscure some details under a "blanket of fear for her own safety".

While investigators won't reveal publicly everything that happened in the Smart's suburban Salt Lake City home, GLOBE has pieced together many of the details.

"When the kidnapper entered the girls bedroom, he disturbed Elizabeth, who was sleeping on the side of the bed closest to the door," says a source close to the investigation.

"Mary Katherine has told police she was sound asleep when the mystery man came in the room, but that she woke up when her sister was told to get out of bed by the stranger.

When she got out of bed, Elizabeth accidently stubbed her toes and said "Ouch!". That woke Mary Katherine...

According to what Mary Katherine told police, the kidnapper took Elizabeth to the bathroom located in the hallway, where he shut the door and turned on the light. Mary Katherine, who had followed them, was able to see a glimmer of light from under the closed door.

The kidnapper and Elizabeth stayed in the bathroom a few minutes and talked, but Mary Katherine couldn't hear what was said. Then, they came back to the bedroom and the man told Elizabeth to put on a pair of shoes and ordered her not to make any noise...

Unfortunately, Mary Katherine was not able to get a good look at his face because she was feigning sleep and also, the blinds were shut in the bedroom, not allowing any moonlight in.

"You never know what could spart a memory, explains ex-prosecutor Murphy. Seeing someone on TV who looks like the gunman, hearing her sister's name, smelling an aftershave...

Dawana Kaufmann and David Thompson

[whenigettime]

I remember a Cocker Spaniel we had, it peed every time we came home from wherever we had been. The Springers are bigger (aren't they?). Will have to look at all this great input regarding doggies.

thanks!

[cinFLA]

we have had Chows for over two decades.. never an aggressive one yet..

That's what my father-in-law said - till he was attacked by his chow! Bye Bye Chow! Now the whole family rests a lot easier.

[Bella]

The only information I have on the Tanners is a little reference to them in a book I read several years ago.."Mormon Murders"...I think I do remember them as being anti-LDS....

What's this book about?

[Bella]

I found this post on another board..What do you think about this?

Subject: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET DETECTIVES!!! HERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING
Date: 7/14/2002 11:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: ProfessorMineyMo
Message-id: <20020714233010.01993.00000439@mb-fv.aol.com>

I've been sluething around on the internet and found some stuff you might (or might not) find interesting.

1. These guys were added to the FBI's Most Wanted and Wanted lists in June. All of them are wanted for child molestation.

Carl Djusberg - fits Mary Katherine's description; known in California and Oregon. Wanted for rape, kidnapping and murder.
www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/june2002/junedjusberg.htm
Made sure to read what it says under "Caution."

Randy Gibbons - wanted in Salt Lake City.
www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/june2002/junegibbons.htm

Goldberg (not the wrestler. I just can't remember his first name.) - placed on Top Ten most wanted in June. Known to travel in Colorado, Nevada, Arizona.

I'm just wondering if the reason FBI are trying to round up these guys has something to do with the Smart case. They're all out west, and they were all added in June. While this may not be anything at all, I have to tell you when I saw a picture of Djusberg and read his description, I got the shivers.

Also interesting is that Mark Sterling Francom is a teacher at Salt Lake City Community College. Doubtful it's the same guy in the crime report. I don't know if I'm telling old news. I've been too busy sluething to pay attention to the Mark Francom posts.

[Palladin]

Haven't heard anything about this van or Columbus, Ohio. Nothing on Channel 10 in Columbus on the Late News. What if Bret Edmunds was in on the conspiracy and was paid to dump the body on his trek from Utah to WV? He may have passed thru Columbus that week. Perhaps someone called in a tip about Ohio? This is frustrating. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[Palladin]

Thanks, V, for typing up the Globe article. It leads me to believe that both girls knew the intruder.

[crystalk]

Maybe Mary Katherine ought to be hypnotized, but I would hate to traumatize her any further.

[Vinomori]

Bella....in answer to your Q. from Amazon:

Editorial Reviews Ingram In October 1985, three pipe bombs shattered the suburban calm of Salt Lake City, Utah. Two people, a young businessman and a grandmother, were killed and one young man wounded. All three were Mormons, and when investigators began sifting through the evidence, an amazing story emerged that shocked the world and shook the foundations of the Mormon Church! A complex tale of God and greed that has been sold to CBS-TV as a four-hour miniseries. (Nonfiction)

[cherry]

What's this book about?

I read it several years ago but as I recall it was about a phony document dealer....he had worked up a way to forge the authenticity of fake documents ....many of them disputing the origination of the Mormon church...he had cooked them up himself....his gimmick was to sell them to interested buyers..he mixed real articles with the fake ones...

but the gist of the book was that he sold many to the LDS church leadership...mostly artilces that put a poor light on the church....those articles were snapped up quickly apparently and put away by church officials...

eventually, this guy was found out... but not before he managed to send a mail bomb to a young LDS leader...it killed him and I think it injured someone else but I have forgotten...the guy in the end got very light treatment by the hands of the Utah legal system...people who live there might remember this story.....

anyway...I do remember something about the Tanners....