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To: Elsie
Would it be too much then, to ask you to describe this(these) god(s), since you believe it(them) is(are) NOT the God of the Bible??

Yes, it would. I think God (I call him the Higher Power) is unknowable. I can't describe the Higher Power any more than you can describe the God of the Bible. If I ask you the same question, what would your answer be? Can you describe your God?

Are you going to give me a list of attributes that you find in the Bible? Are you going to tell me God is good? I don't believe that. Are you going to tell me God is loving? What loving God creates death, disease, and suffering? Are you going to tell me God is merciful? How is he merciful?

But, that's fine. If you want to believe that he's good and loving and merciful, go right ahead. I just don't believe it.

Am I saying that my own Higher Power is not wholly good? Yes, that's what I'm saying. The Higher Power has within him both good and evil. It's kind of icky, but there it is.

The only other possibility is that there's a separate god for all that's good, and another god for all that's evil. That's why the ambiguity between god or gods.

Either God is all good (which is one possibility), or he has within him both good and evil (another possibility), or there are different gods for both good and evil (a third possibility). I can't see it any other way. If there's yet another possibility, please let me know.

993 posted on 07/17/2002 3:10:23 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
I won't talk down to you and give you simplistic answers and tidbits of verses from the Christian Bible. I will, however, try to show you what I believe and why I believe that way, if I may.........
Are you going to give me a list of attributes that you find in the Bible? Are you going to tell me God is good? I don't believe that. Are you going to tell me God is loving? What loving God creates death, disease, and suffering? Are you going to tell me God is merciful? How is he merciful?

It's obvious that you've read and studied the Bible. I am constantly amazed at the things I find when I am re-reading and studying more.

NIV Ezekiel 28:11-17
 11.  The word of the LORD came to me:
 12.  "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "`You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
 13.  You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire,  turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings  were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
 14.  You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
 15.  You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
 16.  Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
 17.  Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

You know that in the first couple of chapters of Genesis, 'God' is reported as doing all of this 'creating' stuff, and, at the end of each day, He says, 'It is good.' (now you know where Martha Stewart gets it from ;^)

It's not until Adam is given a choice does death appear, caused by HIS actions, not God's!

 

When the highway department puts in a new road thru rugged hills, it places guardrails on the curves, to protect people. It knows in advance that there WILL be some who will kill themselves, even with the CURVE AHEAD signs, even with the speed limit signs.

Similarly, God KNEW what choice Man would make, and set up a safety net, in the form of a promise. The design for this curve in the road was in place before the road was built.

 

NIV Ephesians 1:3-4
 3.  Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
 4.  For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
 
NIV 2 Timothy 1:8-10
 8.  So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
 9.  who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
 10.  but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
 
NIV Titus 1:1-3
 
 1.  Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--
 2.  a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
 3.  and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
 
NIV 1 Peter 1:20
 20.  He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
 
NIV Hebrews 4:3-4
 3.  Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, `They shall never enter my rest.'" And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.
 4.  For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."

If you have kids, you know that there is danger all around, and you try to tell them about it, show them results of bad choices, and, if you are REALLY wanting to impress them, you'll stick their hand on the stove when it's hot so they get the message!  (No, you probably won't, but short of chaining them up, when they run out in front of a speeding truck, you'll do what ever you can to save them.)

 

The death was caused by Satan, lying and creating doubt in Eve's mind.

NIV John 8:44
 44.  You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Either God is all good (which is one possibility), or he has within him both good and evil (another possibility), or there are different gods for both good and evil (a third possibility). I can't see it any other way. If there's yet another possibility, please let me know.

1,010 posted on 07/18/2002 11:23:12 AM PDT by Elsie
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