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Scientific American threatens AiG : Demands immediate removal of Web rebuttal
AIG ^ | 2002/07/11 | AIG

Posted on 07/11/2002 9:44:50 AM PDT by ZGuy

The prominent magazine Scientific American thought it had finally discredited its nemesis—creationism—with a feature article listing ‘15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense’ (July 2002). Supposedly these were the fifteen best arguments that evolutionists could use to discredit the Bible’s account of Creation. (National Geographic TV also devoted a lengthy report to the article.)

Within 72 hours, Dr Jonathan Sarfati—a resident scientist at Answers in Genesis–Australia—had written a comprehensive, point-by-point critique of the magazine article and posted it on this Web site.

So Scientific American thought it would try to silence AiG with the threat of a lawsuit.

In an e-mail to Dr Sarfati, Scientific American accused him and AiG of infringing their copyright by reproducing the text of their article and an illustration. They said they were prepared to ‘settle the matter amicably’ provided that AiG immediately remove Dr Sarfati’s article from its Web site.

AiG’s international copyright attorney, however, informed Scientific American that their accusations are groundless and that AiG would not be removing the article. Dr Sarfati’s article had used an illustration of a bacterial flagellum, but it was drawn by an AiG artist years ago. AiG had also used the text of SA’s article, but in a way that is permissible under ‘fair use’ of copyrighted materials for public commentary. (AiG presented the text of the SA article, with Dr Sarfati’s comments interspersed in a different color, to avoid any accusations of misquoting or misrepresenting the author.)

Why the heavy-handed tactics? If AiG’s responses were not valid, why would Scientific American even care whether they remained in the public arena? One can only presume that Scientific American (and National Geographic) had the ‘wind taken out of their sails.’ Dr Sarfati convincingly showed that they offered nothing new to the debate and they displayed a glaring ignorance of creationist arguments. Their legal maneuver appears to be an act of desperation. (AiG is still awaiting SA’s response to the decision not to pull the Web rebuttal.)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: creation; crevo; crevolist; evolution
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To: Right Wing Professor
Brilliant...and babies come from masturbation---pathetic!
601 posted on 07/12/2002 2:59:30 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: That Subliminal Kid
Is that what you'd call evolution? To my mind, when a population is killed off, for whatever reason, those who survive already possessed the genetic traits required to survive.

That was exactly what Darwin called evolution - the survival of the fittest. The Origin of Species is online . See for yourself.

I'm not sure that there's any new genetic information being added to the pool.

I'm not sure what you mean by adding 'new genetic information'. If I generate all posible combinations of 50 letters and spaces, I've written the first line of every one of Shakespeare's sonnets. But is the information really in there? Information theorists would say no; you only add information when you choose the combinations that are meaningful. So, the addition of information isn't in the random mutation, it's in the selection.

602 posted on 07/12/2002 3:06:59 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: f.Christian
Maybe you should stick to cut-and-paste.
603 posted on 07/12/2002 3:09:31 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
Right Wing evo moonie Professor!
604 posted on 07/12/2002 3:12:32 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: That Subliminal Kid
Pathetic, you are truly pathetic...
605 posted on 07/12/2002 3:16:44 PM PDT by Aric2000
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To: f.Christian
You are aware, of course, that your post is completely incomprehensible. Right?
606 posted on 07/12/2002 3:18:51 PM PDT by andy_card
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To: andy_card
Did your little sister get you through kindergarten?
607 posted on 07/12/2002 3:21:18 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: That Subliminal Kid; Right Wing Professor
A good example of *obviously new* information in the genome is the Nylon-eating bacterium
608 posted on 07/12/2002 3:24:06 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: f.Christian
Did your little sister get you through kindergarten?

This is a joke, right? How old are you, F.Christian? Nine? Grow up. Adults don't make little sister jokes.

609 posted on 07/12/2002 3:24:44 PM PDT by andy_card
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To: That Subliminal Kid
I found a couple of posts in that prior thread that referred to ID as "about the design, not the designer" and the "option" that "the universe and all that exists are the exquisite creation of an infinitely intelligent mind." This seems kind of vague.

Other than drawing an apparent distinction between the Christian God as creator and a generalized, non-denominational God as creator, I'm not finding any posts that hash out the obvious differences between ID and Creationism. Sorry. I'll look again. In the meantime, if you have the time, perhaps you could provide a brief outline of the differences. Nothing lengthy, just some of the highlights. Thanks.
610 posted on 07/12/2002 3:25:11 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: andy_card
Isn't andy a funny name for someone in a dress---so much makeup?

Gender/truth/age confused?

611 posted on 07/12/2002 3:27:22 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: ZGuy
Geez! With posts like this, the bad mouthing of the technically correct decision on "under God" and government trying to shove religion down everyone's throats, no wonder people go ape when people try to shove this creationist crap down our throats.

Creationism is not science. Get over it.

And what makes people think God didn't design evolution? I think evolution IS His plan. God just set the whole thing in motion and sits back and watches what happens.

612 posted on 07/12/2002 3:38:45 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: f.Christian
Isn't andy a funny name for someone in a dress---so much makeup?

You could tell that I'm a transvestite from just two posts? Impressive. lmao

613 posted on 07/12/2002 3:39:40 PM PDT by andy_card
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To: atlaw
Other than drawing an apparent distinction between the Christian God as creator and a generalized, non-denominational God as creator, I'm not finding any posts that hash out the obvious differences between ID and Creationism.

Creationism is the belief of a few fire-breathing fundamentalists. ID is the same thing, but its advocates have learned to tone down the fire-breathing part, while pretending to be scientific. They're not fooling very many people.

614 posted on 07/12/2002 4:38:40 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: DaGman
Creationism is not science. Get over it.

You have it backwards. Evolution is not science. It has been totally disproven by all modern science. The one thing that all modern science has shown is that organisms are just plain too complex to have ever arisen by any sort of random means.

615 posted on 07/12/2002 6:10:24 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000
The one thing that all modern science has shown is that organisms are just plain too complex to have ever arisen by any sort of random means.

It's also shown that humans and great apes share the *exact same* mutation that blocks formation of vitamin C. Amazing coincidence, don't ya think?

BTW, what's your take on the example I was using on another thread, about how sickle cell shows natural selection and Mendelian genetics working together?

616 posted on 07/12/2002 6:15:09 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American
Fascinating. And plausible; there are sections of the genome that code for two different proteins; they have two different frameshifted promoters.
617 posted on 07/12/2002 6:22:06 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: gore3000
The one thing that all modern science has shown is that organisms are just plain too complex to have ever arisen by any sort of random means

Then it's just weird that all modern science textbooks don't mention what all modern science has shown.

This is the 'I'm too stupid to figure out how, so everyone else must be too stupid too' fallacy. Actually, if one of the more minimalist bacteria is too complex, it's sure escaped me. We can sequence a small bacterial genome in under a day. The whole thing is a bit of circular DNA, a membrane, a few ribosomes, a few hundred enzymes, 21 tRNAs. Even our undergrads can handle that list of components. And the whole thing pretty much self-assembles.

618 posted on 07/12/2002 6:30:44 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
Actually you have new information as soon as you change something. Meaning is something different and a piece of information is only meaningful in a certain context.
What creationists mean with new information is the extension of the information carrier, in this case the DNA. They say this does not happen but this is not true since due to copy errors, genes can get duplicated (but I guess you're the expert on this). Now your information carrier is longer i.e. it can store more information (in your example you'd have 55 letters instead of 50 for instance).
It's true that in this process no new information has been added since this particular gene is redundant. However, this copy can mutate and so you end up with new information.
So the creationist "no new information" argument is bogus at best.
619 posted on 07/12/2002 6:51:22 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: Virginia-American
Dang! I wanted to post that link. *grumble* *grumble*
620 posted on 07/12/2002 6:52:49 PM PDT by BMCDA
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