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1 posted on 07/10/2002 11:37:46 AM PDT by conway
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To: conway
Lay off the hard stuff. If the people could only amend the Constitution in ways that didn't change it, it wouldn't make much sense having amendments now would it? I suppose next you'll tell us the 13th amendment doesn't exist either. Think.
2 posted on 07/10/2002 11:46:00 AM PDT by Huck
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To: conway
See Article V of the Constitution.
4 posted on 07/10/2002 11:54:13 AM PDT by per loin
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To: conway
This qualifies for today's tinfoil helmet. Basic fact: Amendments are intended to change the Constitution, to accomplish something that couldn't be done before the amendment was adopted. Constitutional amendments are not, strictly speaking, laws ... for example, the President doesn't sign (and cannot veto) the Congressional resolution proposing a new amendment, and a state's governor the same about his legislature's ratification. The Sixteenth Amendment is now part of the Constitution, and since it was adopted the income tax laws are constitutional even if they weren't before the 16th Amendment was adopted.
5 posted on 07/10/2002 11:57:59 AM PDT by DonQ
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To: conway
26 USC Section 3121 (e) (1) "State. The term "State" includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa."

26 USC Section 7701 (a) (9) "United States. The term "United States" when used in a geographic sense includes only the States and the District of Columbia."

Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition P.763

Include. (Lat. inclaudere to shut in, keep within.) To confine within, hold as in an inclosure, take in, attain, shut up , contain, inclose, comprise, comprehend, embrace, involve. Term may, according to context, express an enlargement and have the meaning of and or in addition to, or merely specify a particular thing already included within general words theretofore used. "Including" within statute is interpreted as a word of enlargement or of illustrative application as well as a word of limitation.

Now Read: 26 USC Section 3121 (e) (1) "State. The term "State" (is "confined within, held as in an inclosure, taken in, attained, shut up to, contains, inclosed to, comprises, comprehends, embraces, involves") the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa."

Did I miss something?

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

14 posted on 07/10/2002 2:01:49 PM PDT by Boonie Rat
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To: conway

Our U.S. Constitution is an agreement between We the People and our public servants.

Nonsense. The Constitution is an agreement between the several states and the Federal government. I know it starts with "We the People," but who ratified it? There was no popular vote - the states ratified it. Therefore it is an agreement between the states and the Federal government (We the People also elect the state officials, so in that sense it is an agreement between We the People and the Federal government).

Now follow me on this - if this is a contract between the states and the Federal government, ONLY the states or the Federal government can decide if a change to the contract is valid. I see no states suing to say that they never agreed to the 16th Amendment, so it is valid - despite what the tax protestors say about the way it was passed.

I don't like the income tax or the 16th Amendment either (although I think the 17th Amendment is far worse), but to change it you need to convince 2/3 of the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the states to repeal it. Good luck.

15 posted on 07/10/2002 2:03:16 PM PDT by BruceS
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To: conway
Direct tax: A tax on business property or savings dividens etc. The founders knew that without this clause our books would be open for inspection and we would no longer be secure in our papers and effects.

Nope. The Federalist Papers, and court cases decided in the late 18th century, show that the term "direct tax" was used then to mean a tax on land-- what we call today a "property tax".

21 posted on 07/10/2002 3:05:27 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian
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