Posted on 07/09/2002 5:35:41 AM PDT by Valin
Edited on 04/13/2004 3:36:41 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
NEW YORK -- A minister with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has been suspended for participating in an interfaith service at Yankee Stadium for the families of those killed in the Sept. 11 attacks.
The Rev. David Benke, president of the New York-based Atlantic District, was also ordered to apologize for mixing Christian and non-Christian views in violation of the denomination's constitution.
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
I have attended many other churches in my life, and I have read much concerning the doctrine of other churches (doctrine is simply what the members of the church believe).
Regarding the LCMS in particular, we have wonderful and Biblical hymnody and liturgy which are directly taken from the Bible. I am sure you have heard of the hymn, 'A Mighty Fortress is our God', well Luther wrote it in based on Psalm 46. If you look at our hymnal, you will see the Bible references listed to every hymn. You can find the Lutheran Hymnal online. Do a google search and see what you come up with. Please, before you attack, you should know what you are talking about.
Benke, through Pollack, declined to comment Monday. But in a January statement responding to the complaint Benke said he clearly prayed in the name of Christ at the service, which included Muslim, Roman Catholic, Jewish, Hindu and Sikh representatives.The way I heard it, Cardinal Egan himself participated in this service. Likewise, Bishop Pilla himself conducted a similar service in Cleveland.
Considering the Catholic bashing that sometimes goes on around here, it's interesting to note the relative levels of acceptance of differences in belief.
-Eric
Excellent question. First, he did not just "attend," he co-officiated, he led. Secondly, he was there not as a "private citizen," but as an ordained minister of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. Even more than that, President Benke was there representing the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, as a district president, an officer of Synod.
Benke was wearing his clerical shirt and collar, with a pectoral cross. That clearly identified him as a clergyman. Then he was introduced as "the Rev. Dr. David Benke, who is President of the Atlantic District of the Lutheran Church, the Missouri Synod."
It was a service. "A Prayer for America" was announced beforehand as an "interfaith service." It was referred to during the service itself as a "service." Benke himself called it "God's House of Prayer." It was reported afterward as an "interfaith service."
The service consisted of approximately 34 elements or acts, of which 28 were religious. At least 22 of the religious acts were done by clergy. The service had invocations, religious ceremonies, scripture readings, "reflections," prayers, and benedictions, almost all done by clergy. According to the order of service, approximately 22 clerics from various religions--including 12 non-Christian (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh) clerics--performed religious acts. Also, there were remarks from two political leaders. During the service, two religious hymns were sung. Also, there was one patriotic song and one secular song. (Before and after the service, there were two more patriotic songs.)
Were they all praying to the same deity? or representing their faiths in support of the victims?
They all were joining together in prayer to the same deity.
Did he violate an order NOT to attend? or did he have permission? . . . If he violated a superior's demand that he not attend, then the action is justified.
He had the permission of the current synodical president, whom he knew would not object. He would not have had the approval of the previous president, who reprimanded Benke for a similar offense in 1998. But the point is, Benke was in direct violation of the Holy Scriptures, the Lutheran Confessions, and the Constitution of the LCMS, and of his own 1998 public assurance to the Synod.
Did he "say it" like any suboordinate "says it" to save his job when the paper is placed in front of him with pen at ready?
If you mean his 1998 "sincere" public apology and assurance, he "said it" under the scenario you describe. But once he put his name to the apology, those became his words. If he did not believe them, he should not have signed.
How do you know this for sure?
He had the permission of the current synodical president, whom he knew would not object. He would not have had the approval of the previous president, who reprimanded Benke for a similar offense in 1998.
Two things about this statement - The top guy knew about this and approved the request anyway, so to me, this cancels out what he had previously put in writing the first time he got busted. Secondly, do I detect a trace of "non-support" from you about this new president?
But the point is, Benke was in direct violation of the Holy Scriptures, the Lutheran Confessions, and the Constitution of the LCMS, and of his own 1998 public assurance to the Synod.
Would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction in Scriptures where God say Christians are to have creeds and constitutions? Isn't God's laws enough for us?
Having said all of the above, it sounds like this guy Benke might be a little "slimey" in how he handles his commitments. My question to the LCMS crowd out there is: With all of your laws and hierarchy in place, how is someone like this (if all that you say about him is true) allowed to continue within your denomination? Where is the church discipline that Paul teaches us?
Since when did "tolerance" become a Christian virtue.
Dr. Barry wrote something about this a few years ago. If I remember correctly, his opinion was that it was proper for a LCMS Minister or laymember to participate in a prayer service (or similar) for the community in times of community tragedy, etc. to show our support for the community & pray for our fellow citizens. I think that he said there were certain ways that this should be approached, however, and I dont think Benke followed these guidelines.
Do you have access to this document? I thought I had a copy but I can't find it.
As for the Rev. Benke's promise not to repeat the earlier offense, all I can cite is his "once-in-a-lifetime" defense. The rules of the LCMS seem to allow for the fact that not every thing that will happen can be forseen, and surely, 9/11 fits into that category (we should all hope!) If Benke had decided to proceed on his own, then, yes, I can see the violation. I think the permission overrides his earlier "will not do it again" as the circumstances of the previous ecumenical service could not possibly have been remotely similar to the post-WTC ceremony, and the superior recognized this.
I know from another post on this thread that the ridicule heaped on the LCMS (yes, I saw O'Reilly pile it on last night, like I expected) as a result of this matter will be borne by the church members and hierarchy as just a part of the cross they have to bear, but please, the next time something like this comes up, consider that we live in a world of publicity. When religious leaders all act like so many lawyers (to whom truth is a mere obstacle to the eventual result) over something that appears extremely trivial to the unchurched, they remove themselves as solutions, and simply become part of the problem.
Sincerely, I do wish your denomination the best from this, even though I disagree with people of religious faith on many things, I still appreciate all of the good that they bring to humankind. This controversy cannot help your church in that regard, unless a peaceful and mutually acceptable solution can be reached. No matter what their faith, or lack of it, people of good will are hoping for a good solution. I apologize for any unfair cynicism in my prior comments to you, or others in this thread. I'm not so mean-spirited as to wish ill on any decent, sincere people of faith.
Why, how could you say such a thing?! I support the current president of the Missouri Synod as much as I supported the previous President of the United States. :-)
. . . how is someone like this (if all that you say about him is true) allowed to continue within your denomination? Where is the church discipline that Paul teaches us?
It is in process. The Rev. Benke has been suspended from his office as president of the Atlantic District. What will happen upon appeal remains to be seen. The whole issue may not be resolved one way or another until our next synodical convention, in July of 2004.
Thank you for those gracious comments, Hunter!
Paul wrote much on the subject of being confident in one's faith. Not knowing Paul personally we couldn't be sure, but based upon his writings, one should not have been afraid to attend out of a legalistic concern.
Read the account of Paul in Athens, on Mars Hill (Acts 17:16-34). It argues against what Benke did and said--more specifically, against what Benke failed to do and say.
Paul was "greatly distressed" to see that the city was full of idols (v. 16). Did Benke seem "greatly distressed" over the idolaters who were leading that service with him? On the contrary, he said, "Oh, we're stronger now than we were an hour ago." He called the adherents of the false religions his "sisters and brothers," in a religious context. He invited them to join him in prayer, as though they all were praying to the same God.
In Acts 17, Paul said that the idolaters were wrong about their notions of God and called it "ignorance" (vv. 22-29). Did Benke do that?
Paul said that God now was commanding them to repent (v. 30). Did Benke do that?
Paul said that God has set a day of judgment for the world (v. 31). Did Benke do that?
Paul was sneered at and cut off before he could finish (vv. 32-33). Benke voluntarily finished and didn't say anything that was clear or direct anyway, and he was cheered.
Finally, at Mars Hill, Paul did not lead a prayer service with pagan clerics. Benke did.
But the Rev. Benke did not pray and speak like Elijah. Instead, he prayed and spoke like a pleaser of men, affirming their idolatry and effectively reducing the one true God to one among the pantheon.
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me" (John 14:6).
St. Peter confessed before a hostile audience:
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
Nowhere does Benke say anything like that. He does not tell the pagans that their false religions will not save them, that they have been holding on to false hopes, and that now they should trust in Christ as the only Savior from sin and death.
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? (2 Cor. 6:14-16)
You shall have no other gods.
There were plenty of other gods at that service. Benke did nothing to show that there was a problem with that.
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