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To: mrfixit514
What's your point? The US did come late into the war, but there is a darn good chance that the Russians would have been defeated had they not received significant amounts of American aid, not to mention that the US/British invasion of North Africa diverted considerable resources from the Eastern front.

It is true that 9 of 10 Germans were killed by the Red Army, but the Russians killed essentially no Japanese or Italians in combat.

The Russians could not have defeated the Germans without our alliance, but equally we could not have defeated them without either Russian alliance or a far greater number of casualties.

4 posted on 07/06/2002 2:03:39 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: Restorer
What's your point? The US did come late into the war, but there is a darn good chance that the Russians would have been defeated had they not received significant amounts of American aid, not to mention that the US/British invasion of North Africa diverted considerable resources from the Eastern front.

What many don't realize is that the true second front in Europe starting from 42 was in the air over Germany. Aside from turning Germany into a pigpen from end to end, the air war absorbed something like half of Germany's production of heavy guns (for AA) which otherwise would have been available for the Eastern front.

8 posted on 07/06/2002 2:16:32 PM PDT by medved
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To: Restorer
Equally we could not have defeated them without either Russian alliance or a far greater number of casualties.

Once we got the A-Bomb in the summer of '45, if we had been fighting Germany alone, we would have started dropping 'em all over the Fatherland and that would have ended the war with Germany as quickly as the war with Japan was ended.

10 posted on 07/06/2002 2:21:14 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Restorer
Had the Brits not recieved huge amounts of military aid, food, money and actual US troops and Navy, they would have been destroyed in Africa, in Europe and Asia. If they won a few battles, they lost heavily at Dunkirk, Dieppe, Africa, Greece, Cyprus, Singapore, Hong Kong, Burma and in the early battles in Europe. If Montgomery hadn't been such a wimp, we would have won in Europe much sooner. Ungrateful Britidiots!
13 posted on 07/06/2002 2:23:59 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: Restorer
The Russians fully backed Germany until Operation Barbarossa in 1941 when Hitler decided he would concentrate on the East front rather than on the West front. Amazing how close and easily the Germans could have defeated Britain but the armies were told to stop, curtail, or divert their forces elsewhere when within another week they could have claimed complete victory.

Similarly, the Russians escaped German annihilation when Barbarossa was postponed by a few weeks which pushed forward the German invasion into the winter months which had defeated other like Napoleon before. This fortuitous postponement was courtesy of the Yugoslavs or Serbs who said up yours to Hitler and got rid of quislings when told to capitulate which enraged Hitler and made him decide to go after the Serbs first - a significant blunder.

The Americans came late into the war but without that support and entry by the USA and then the Russians to back Britain, the Germans could have eventually won and made the world a rotten place to live in. It took four years for the rest of the world or Allies to defeat the Germans and then stop Japan courtesy of nukes. One has to look with respect at the fighting spirit and organization of the Krauts and the Japs which required the rest of the world four years to defeat these two enemy countries. But without the U.S., the remaining Allies would have been toast in WW-2.

Hitler is stated to have observed that FDR was a National Socialist like the Nazis but despite having come to power at around the same time as Hitler, FDR did not accomplish what Hitler had accomplished. Hitler felt FDR was jealous!! Of course Hitler used his Secret Army (formed and led by a bunch of blatant homosexuals and perverts who were its generals and officers), then the Secret Service and the Gestapo to achieve his aims by force. Interesting to see that Hitler acknowledges that the U.S. Democrats subscribe to Nazism.

The only rotten thing in the Allied victory was that Stalin was the only other powerful dictator with Hitler gone. We know what a mess the commies inflicted later on world peace for the next fifty years. Should have gone after Stalin too in 1945.

27 posted on 07/06/2002 3:47:54 PM PDT by TransOxus
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To: Restorer
And Europe (all of it) would have been (and would still be) Russian satellite states, assuming the Russians won.
31 posted on 07/06/2002 4:24:27 PM PDT by RossA
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To: Restorer
The Russians could not have defeated the Germans without our alliance, but equally we could not have defeated them without either Russian alliance or a far greater number of casualties.

If Germany had defeated Russia in World War II just as Germany defeated Russia in World War I, Germany would still have lost the war and the U.S. would have still kept casualties relatively low.

The difference is that V.E. day would have been in late 1945 and that Berlin instead of Nagasaki would now be used in the same sentence with Hiroshima.

55 posted on 07/07/2002 2:10:00 PM PDT by Polybius
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