Gas Drillers Tap Coal Beds

USA TODAY ^ | Friday, July 5, 2002 | George Hager

[BOBTHENAILER]

POWDER RIVER BASIN, Wyoming - Eight years ago, Duane Zavadil was driving through this vast prehistoric basin in northeastern Wyoming hunting for natural gas prospects, when his boss looked out the car window and wondered out loud, "What are those little boxes?"

[Eagle Eye]

Have the envirowhackos go to Campbell County then try to convince us tha we need to preserve evry bit of pristine land. That area is the single ugliest area I've ever seen in the US. The wells and pumps actually improve the landscape.

[aruanan]

Companies had produced coa-bed methane from gas-rich coal seams in Alabama and Colorado for years before production caught on here.

For info on both where the methane gas and coal come from look HERE.

[edger]

I don't understand. If extracting the water (which is too salty to use for agriculture) to get at the coal bed methane is lowering the water table thereby harming the local agriculture, how did the extracted water get more salty than the water table water?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Maybe they add salt during the mining process to enhance the natural water flavour...?????

[RonF]

Here's how this can work: Say I use water from a source that has a given amount of salinity in it to irrigate a property for agricultural purposes. Usually, what I'm doing is spreading that water around on the ground. Where does the water go? Where does the salt go? Some water is taken up by the plants involved. Some soaks down into the ground and will work its way down to the aquifier that is closest to the surface. Some runs off to whatever surface water depot may exist (lake, pond, river, stream, etc.). Finally, some will evaporate. This last is where you can end up with a problem. The salts in the water that evaporates is left behind in the ground it evaporated from. Under certain conditions, that salt will tend to build up. If it does, it will inhibit plant growth in the soil it builds up in, to the point that said soil will no longer support plant growth. Thus, even though the water as it comes from the source is able to support plant growth, the soil it's used in cannot. Now, whether this actually occurs or not is a function of a few different factors. These include, but are not limited to, the amount of dissolved minerals in that water, the type of minerals we're talking about, the soil composition (how permeable it is, for example), the amount of rain the area gets, how deep the aquifier is, how much sun they get, blah blah blah. For example, if there's little rain, the soil has a lot of clay (so that water doesn't percolate down though it too fast), it's very sunny and hot (so that a lot of the water evaporates), there's not a lot of rain at any time (which would flush salt out of the soil), etc., then you may have salt buildup in the soil, especially if a lot of fertilizer is being used. But what the relative situation is for all of these factors in the area in question is unknown to me. If the environmental groups are "cooking the books" by using misleading figures, then shame on them. If there's a good answer to the question they pose, then fine. But it's still a worthwhile question.

[EternalVigilance]

To my knowedge, the term "agriculture" includes not only waving fields of grain, but also raising livestock. I think the latter is a major activity in the area being discussed here.

Why of course it is...but don't you think the threat posed by these wells to cattle on this rangeland (range that requires acres and acres to support one cow-calf unit) is vastly overstated by those who are blocking the development of this resource...a resource that is critical to our national security for the next generation or so?

By the way, that same cow-calf unit can be produced using dollar fifty Iowa corn grown on a fraction of one acre. More and more of that corn ground is being used to produce ethanol as a gasoline supplement. Of course the same vehicles being fueled by that blend would run on natural gas with no problem.

[edger]

Yeah, that's a good story too but has nothing to do with the first story.

And it is not a good question because the environmentalists are obstructionist, pure and simple, and don't give a rat's rump about any answer to their question.

[mia]

In the Southern Tier of New York State there are hundreds, if not thousands, of capped off gas wells. My son used to paint them during the summer while he was in college. He and two other fella's were hired by a local company to paint as many as they could each day for the entire summer. They never were able to paint them all. There were other companies that owned gas wells in the region as well.

Our gas (Western New York) is piped from Tenessee. I have no idea why gas from our state is unavailable for comsumption.

[BOBTHENAILER]

Our gas (Western New York) is piped from Tenessee. I have no idea why gas from our state is unavailable for comsumption.

I would find it somewhat hard to believe that the owners of the capped wells would not be producing them, unless the cost of production exceeds the gas sold. I am aware of an exploration play underway in NY in the Trenton formation. That natural gas is being sold in NY.

A friend of mine was working there last year and said it was extremely difficult to buy leases, as many lanowners were too environmentally challenged.

[MonroeDNA]

"If you don't like environmental groups' agendas, fine. But what's your response to the actual issues brought up? ...(blah, blah, blah)."

Welcome, member of 50 days.

[MonroeDNA]

"More data re the link between the Enviral Nazis and their buddies the Opecker Princes. Opec does not want anything to decrease our dependence on Opecker Oil, be it natural gas or this gas. So their buddies, the Enviral Nazis will fight this on every front."

I am wondering if there is financial backing to the environmentalist wackos from out peaceful friends in the middle east.

[Grampa Dave]

Hopefully one day we will see the links and the dots connected.

Of course one only has to ask the simple question: Who benefits when the enviral Nazis make us more dependent on Opecker Oil, which they have done for two decades?

It certainly isn't the American People that Tommy Da$$hole, the poster boy for senators owned and controlled by the envirals continues to harm with his no new drilling policies.

[MonroeDNA]

You are on to something. Something smells rotten.

[BOBTHENAILER]

And they fear that the new roads and water disposal required to more than quintuple the number of producing wells to a planned 51,000 will compound the damage."

Good points. As I stated, it makes no difference where exploration is done, they fight us tooth and toenail.

In northern Michigan since 1987 we have drilled approximately 8,000 shallow Antrim Shale wells, from Traverse City to Alpena. The gas from those wells will supply Detroit with enough gas for at least ten more years.

Due to Enviro lawsuits, the DNR passed policies that have increaed the cost of drilling those wells from around $150,000 to almost $250,000. At least half of that increase is directly due to the Enviros.

In the past I have driven reluctant landowners from TVC to Alpena and pointed out that can't see more than 10 wells while driving through the heart of the fields. Out of hundreds of people contacted. I have only had two turn me down.

[BOBTHENAILER]

. If the technical facts don't support their position, then fine.

Read my other posts about the water and you'll see that the technical facts don't support their position.

Why would you even begin to listen to an argument that is based on lies and distortion?

[BOBTHENAILER]

Thank you, sir!

And thank you sir, for you educational support with RonF, who has obviously never been to the area. I think if you asked a rancher out there (pre-CBM development) about agriculture, he'd say, "Yeah I hear they do that stuff in Iowa South Dakota and Nebraska."

Thanks to the water, that will probably change in WY, much to their benefit, not detriment.

[BOBTHENAILER]

That area is the single ugliest area I've ever seen in the US.

Isn't that the truth! Gets a lot better over by Sheridan and Buffalo, but of course, thats where all the Greenies are.

[BOBTHENAILER]

I suppose we'll now be seeing 'coal huggers!'

ROFLMAO. That would be an interesting position to watch them try and defend.

[Grampa Dave]

Good for you driving those people around to see for themselves. I was thinking that the land owners with those gas wells in this thread, as pictured, should make them miny oasis sites with trees, brush and even water for the critters. If done right in a couple of years, you wouldn't notice them. The critters would make these mini oasis sites part of their life like the caribou have made our pipelines in Alaska.

The enviral whackos are against any real effort to make us less dependent on hydro carbon fuels from the Opec Princes and Iran/Iraq. They seem to really hate local hydro carbon energy like what you posted in your reply:

In northern Michigan since 1987 we have drilled approximately 8,000 shallow Antrim Shale wells, from Traverse City to Alpena. The gas from those wells will supply Detroit with enough gas for at least ten more years.

Due to Enviro lawsuits, the DNR passed policies that have increased the cost of drilling those wells from around $150,000 to almost $250,000. At least half of that increase is directly due to the Enviros.

>/b>They obviously don't want Detroit to have a local 10 year supply of Natural gas at reasonable price. So they want their cut via these law suits.

[Eagle Eye]

Greenies in Sheridan? Used to be just hunters, miners, and pollacks.

Sheridan College, go fight win!