RAZORMOUTH: Under God, Under Man -- What's so great about the Pledge of Allegiance anyway?

RAZORMOUTH.com ^ | June 29, 2002 | Jim Babka

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Under God, Under Man?

Jim Babka | Should Christians be upset by court's decision on Pledge of Allegiance?

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You must be living under a rock if you haven’t heard the news. Two “pin-head” federal judges said that mentioning God in the Pledge of Allegiance violated the First Amendment rights of second-graders (more correctly, one second-grader’s parent). The pin-head label came from the Rev. Jerry Falwell. He also called them “Dumb and Dumber” — of course he meant that with love.

Something must be wrong with me. The news didn’t shock me, surprise me, worry me, anger me, or cause me to cry. I’m wondering why it caused such a stir?

• The ruling of the three-judge panel, according to legal experts left and right, is almost guaranteed to be overturned—either by a full panel from the circuit court or the Supreme Court.

• If you were worried that the media had become “Godless,” the news coverage should’ve set your mind at ease. All the national TV news-show hosts and all but two of their professional guests decried or mocked the decision.

• And in a display of tremendous political courage, Congress convened on the steps of the Capitol to recite the pledge and members stepped up to the microphones to tell the media how outraged they were.

So what’s the problem? It sounds like it’s already solved.

But is it really a good thing if this court decision is overturned? Any time you find yourself in agreement with more than 400 congressmen and the majority of the major media, you better double-check your premises!

In 1962, the Supreme Court told public schools that prayer was banned. Since then, indignant Christians have fought for a constitutional amendment and through the courts to restore that right. Forty years later, they have little to show for those efforts.

Right around the same time, parochial schools experienced a renaissance. Christian schools sprung up like weeds all over the countryside. If the schools were going to separate God from their kids, then these responsible parents were going to separate their children from the government schools.

I’m a product of that movement. My parents made the decision to switch me from a public to a Christian school in third grade—I’m glad they did. Now I’m a home-schooling parent, because I believe my children’s education is my responsibility.

Please understand that even the big-government liberals (in Congress and the media) don’t like this decision because they believed it was too bold—too much ado over a very little innocuous thing. The decision was overreaching, and it could’ve sounded a well-overdue second alarm for those few Christian parents who’ve refused to accept the truth up to this point — education and “religion” (for lack of a better term), cannot be separated. This decision could’ve added the necessary fuel to the fire needed to separate school and state.

Joseph Farah, publisher of WorldNetDaily, put it this way, “If responsible Christian and Jewish parents did this [took their children out of government schools] all over America tomorrow, it would set off a revolution in this country. Gone would be the multi-billion-dollar Department of Education boondoggle. Gone would be the condom education. Gone would be the sexual propaganda and the moral relativism. No way tens of millions of parents are going to continue to be soaked in taxes for schools they don't use. Not only will your children be liberated, the whole country would be. … It will be like the collapse of the Soviet Union—hundreds of millions of people freed overnight.”

Instead, the decision will be overturned, victory will be declared, and those Christian parents who insist on deluding themselves about the wonders of public education will remain where they are.

The government education factory will continue to teach those children all kinds of things that are alien to most Christian values in areas like the origin of man, sexuality, and especially the environment—but they’ll say the Pledge of Allegiance correctly!

Government schools will continue to endorse pantheism, teach secular humanism, and instruct students in post-modern thinking, even going so far as to directly challenge them to question the things their parents and churches teach them. … And then they’ll pass them to the fifth grade!

Studies indicate that 94 percent of the country believes there’s a God, 84 percent believe in Jesus Christ, and 80 percent support voluntary prayer in school. Is it reasonable for Christian’s to expect any higher numbers? Do Christians need to continue fighting for 40 more years to make government schools right, or should they learn their lesson and withdraw their support?

Besides, in this case, what’s there to fight for? Now I know for some I’m about to engage in great sacrilege — but what’s so great about the Pledge of Allegiance anyway?

Who else, but to God do we, as Christians, owe allegiance? Should we swear allegiance to a plot of land or the state that controls it (Exodus 20:3-5, Matthew 5:33-35)? (In our country, doesn’t the state owe its allegiance to the people, rather than the other way around?)

The pledge was created in 1892 by a socialist named Francis Bellamy as a way to begin indoctrination of children into utopian ways. At the time, Bellamy was a high-ranking official in the National Education Association (NEA) who had recently been forced from his pulpit as a Baptist minister.

The words that caused all the controversy—“under God” — weren’t in Bellamy’s original. They were added by Congress in 1954 to provide contrast between the United States and “godless communism.” Bellamy’s granddaughter said he would’ve resented the change.

And in the post-decision analysis Wednesday, constitutional scholars like Douglas Kmiec, Jonathan Turley, and others indicated that the Pledge didn’t establish, “any particular religion.” Rather, they advised, it upheld the tradition that we believe in some kind of a national “deity.” That’s the bold constitutional argument that will likely be used to “restore” the Pledge if this case makes it to the Supreme Court (sarcasm intended).

If “under God” is retained in the Pledge, will that really be much of a victory? If it makes 400 congressmen and the media happy, it’s probably not such a great thing. The need to separate school and state, the history and purpose of the pledge, and the lameness of the constitutional argument, lead me to believe that retaining those words is not only not worth a fight, but it’s also, ultimately, a loss.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Your definition doesn't interest me. What did Jesus say?

Jesus said: Render unto Ceaser that which is his.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)

Since Paul was a directly-commissioned Apostle of Jesus Christ, his words speak for Jesus.

The duty of the State is as follows:

• Punish Murder.
• Punish Adultery.
• Punish Theft.
• Punish Fruad.
• Punish Coercion, Despoilment, and Abuse of Property.
• And if there be any other Law, it is this: You shall never Commit any form of Aggression against any Neighbor.

If it's good enough for Paul, it's good enough for Jesus. We are authorized to Pay Taxes (Romans 13:7) for the Government Punishment of Murder, Adultery, Theft, Fraud, Coercion, Aggression, and THAT'S IT (Romans 13: 8-10). That is the fulfillment of the Civic Law (Romans 13:10).

What does that INFALLIBLE word, "fulfillment", mean to you?
Maybe, just maybe, the word "fulfillment" means FULFILLMENT. How about that? Does the Bible matter? Like, at all?

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

Jesus said to pay taxes for THAT WHICH IS CAESAR's. We are authorized to Pay Taxes (Romans 13:7) for the Government Punishment of Murder, Adultery, Theft, Fraud, Coercion, Aggression, and THAT'S IT. (Romans 13: 8-10).

If it's good enough for Paul, it's good enough for Jesus.

Maybe we have failed. Maybe we are incompetent readers of Scripture. But we have searched the Scriptures in vain for any indication that any government or "sphere of sovereignty" has any authority whatever to do more than an individual may do. If any government or "sphere of sovereignty" has any such power, where is the text that supports that proposition?

In fact, if there were any text in Scripture of such a kind then the definition of brotherly love would be different for a group than for an individual. That... would be a damnable situation and an outrageous inconsistency. (Frederick Nymeyer, The Powers that be are ordained of God)

Check your premises, Christian.
Everything you think you know... is Wrong.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

People should be free to keep their hard-earned money so they can purchase exactly the kind of education they want for their children -- one with prayer or one without prayer. One with sex education or one without sex education. One with creationism or one without creationism. The choice belongs to parents, not politicians.

"With prayer or without prayer"? "With Creationism or without Creationism"? Them's fightin' words, says the Modern Christian Fundamentalist. Good grief, Alan, to the average Modern Christian Fundamentalist, you sound like a God-forsaken Atheist.

Of Course, if the average Modern Christian Fundamentalist could wrap his red-neck mind around the concept for one bloody second, they'd realize that the Abolition of Publik Skooling is about the best thing that could possibly happen to Christian HomeSchooling.

• Heck... Us Redneck Christian Fundamentalists -- We is already winning the National Spelling Bees.
• Heck... Us Redneck Christian Fundamentalists -- We is already winning the National Geography Bees.
• And in the field of Applied Collegiate Logic -- Us Redneck Christian Fundamentalists is always winning them-there National Debate Championships (and yeah, that's including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and all them other Ivy-League Yankee pikers).

But DESPITE the fact that we evidently don't need them one bit, the average Modern Christian Fundamentalist still supports Publik Skools... Golly-gee whillikers, if only we could get that "one-minute prayer" to the un-named, deistic American "god" back, we could claim victory!!

Balderdash.

Abolish Publik Skools, Give us our money back, and us Redneck Fundamentalist Christians will cordially continue to annihilate every Atheist School in every field of academic competition in the country.

Listen, Christians -- We don't need "school prayer" and we don't need the "Under God" Pledge in the Publik Skools.

We just need Government Edumukashun to shut up and die.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Wasn't the pledge by written by Northerners and directed against residents of Southern states after the the War of Northern Aggression? 74 posted on 7/4/02 1:20 AM Pacific by Doe Eyes

Yes, that's all true, but I'd be happy enough if the Feds would consent to let Alaska go free.

Been there, loved it, I'd move there again. They've got a veritable ocean of Oil (and high-paying jobs) for the locals if the Feds would just let them drill, of which every Alaskan I ever met was in favor. (In native Alaska, even the environmentalists admit that the Black Gold is buried under thousands of square miles of lifeless, horrific, god-forsaken Ice. It's only the the Lower-48 GreenPeacers who preach visions of "pristine wilderness" to the Communists in Congress). And Alaska Oil is a good thing... when was the last time an Eskimo flew a jetliner into a US skyscraper??

Just cut Alaska loose from the 75% Federal Tribute, and I would gladly move back. Texas can try and make it's own way (sorry, 'Dog).

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!

[RnMomof7]

Good article.

I wonder why all the furror..men and women that do not think about God from one day top the next , men that trust in themselves ,want the right to their token acknowledgement of the sovereignity of God.

This nation IS under God ..but most Americans really do not understand , nor would the accept the ramifications of this truth.

They want " under God " in the pledge" because it is "tradition" and they want to live like this is the United States of Sodom

God is control ,perhaps it would be best to think on that than a couple words in a "pledge"

Rom 13:1   Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

  

Happy Independence day!

.

[Jerry_M]

"OK children, now that we have recited the Pledge of Allegiance, who wants to be the first to demonstrate to me how we put a condom on a banana?"

The sorry state of publick edumacation.

[RnMomof7]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (General Epistle of the Apostle James, ch1 vs27)
So... Offer a REAL argument, not a worthless twentieth-century Unscriptural Sound-Bite dreamed up by lousy and stupid apostate preachers.

Ping to that OP...more of the Arminian lie ...have a "relationship" with Christ ..Choose Christ...Synergistic nonsense.........God has a "relationship" with me..He is my maker , He chose me , He is my saviour, my King and my Lord..

He does all the work.. I am the beneficiary. of His Grace. I have nothing to give Him of any value..

[RnMomof7]

LOL...In my granddaughters public school they were showing the 1st graders Harry Potter and other PG films without clearing them with the parents. Children , like my grand daughter that told them they were not allowed to view Potter were sent into the hall (imagine if that was an athesist kid..because of prayer)

We are in the Post Christian era!

[Wrigley]

Separation of school and state bump.

A you're absolutely right bump.

[Wrigley]

I couldn't agree with you more. It's one of the main reasons I voted against the voucher proposal for MI.

[gg188]

You wrote: I'm in favor of my kids (when God sees fit to so bless me) affirming that this Nation... and every Atom in the Universe... is "under God". In fact, I want my kids to affirm that the Universe ain't under some un-named, deistic "God", I want them to affirm that the Universe is under the control of Jesus Christ in particular. "He holds in His nail-scarred hands the destiny of all things".....and I started to reply to you, "spot on!" That is exactly, precisely right. I thought these were YOUR sentiments; perhaps I misread the quotation marks and you were merely quoting someone else.

Apparently I misunderstood you. I thought you were supporting God. It is hardly a "slur" to associate libertarians in this nation with legalization of drugs. It sounds like you are mixing homeschooling and drug use. That's really weird.

[drstevej]

As a nation, we verbally claim a Pledge of Allegiance to being a nation under God while our lives are a practical Declaration of Independence from Him.

[Kevin Curry]

IOW, we're already three-quarters of the distance to hell anyway--why not gun the engine and finish the trip in style?

Loony libertarian logic.

[Kevin Curry]

[O]ur lives are a practical Declaration of Independence from Him

Hence thegross social and personal dysfunction, anomie, moral relativism, ascendance of porn, abortion, gay rights and feminist movements, and the creation of a suffocating nanny state.

It is no mere coincidence that the nanny state has risen as atheism has gained asendancy in our culture. A people who will not discipline themselves according to a consistent God-based morality internally will be governed by tyrants externally.

Let the heathen rage. They are raging against their own vain image but do not recognize themselves.

[drstevej]

A fitting and eloquent Fourth of July Rant!
Rant On, brother.

[lockeliberty]

Hey now, where's the picture of "the home of the Crusaders"?[Don't you just love that politically incorrect nickname?]
On this 4th of July let us remember the tenacity and perserverance of our Christian founding fathers- Onward Christian Soldiers!

[Jean Chauvin]

Here's the best I could do:

"the FUTURE home of the Crusaders"

"[Don't you just love that politically incorrect nickname?]"

Expect the flack to come eventually!

Jean

[Demidog]

Religion.

The constitution doesn't endorse any specific religion and in fact I really don't know that it endorses religion.

Perhaps you could be more specific.

[Demidog]

Correct. Which one? Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship.

At any rate, it isn't endorsed by the constitution.

[Jean Chauvin]

"some 25+ Christian feeder elementary and middle schools(same Chr. school sys) 6 Christian High Schools -ranging from about 400 students to over 1100 students per H.S. (same Chr. school sys.)"

It also says something about the parents who pop out around $3000+ per year per kid for tuition.

While there are some wealthy families in the Reformed community here (ever here of AMWAY?) -the vast majority of us are middle class.

Which means our parents had to sacrifice lots of fun material things to send the kids to the Christian Schools.

I am in favor of vouchers (Wrigley) -because if the state will pay for my education with my tax money, I want it to pay me so I can send my kid(s) to the schools of my choice.

Jean