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RAZORMOUTH: Under God, Under Man -- What's so great about the Pledge of Allegiance anyway?
RAZORMOUTH.com ^ | June 29, 2002 | Jim Babka

Posted on 07/03/2002 7:42:01 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian

Under God, Under Man?

Jim Babka | Should Christians be upset by court's decision on Pledge of Allegiance?


You must be living under a rock if you haven’t heard the news. Two “pin-head” federal judges said that mentioning God in the Pledge of Allegiance violated the First Amendment rights of second-graders (more correctly, one second-grader’s parent). The pin-head label came from the Rev. Jerry Falwell. He also called them “Dumb and Dumber” — of course he meant that with love.

Something must be wrong with me. The news didn’t shock me, surprise me, worry me, anger me, or cause me to cry. I’m wondering why it caused such a stir?

  • The ruling of the three-judge panel, according to legal experts left and right, is almost guaranteed to be overturned—either by a full panel from the circuit court or the Supreme Court.

  • If you were worried that the media had become “Godless,” the news coverage should’ve set your mind at ease. All the national TV news-show hosts and all but two of their professional guests decried or mocked the decision.

  • And in a display of tremendous political courage, Congress convened on the steps of the Capitol to recite the pledge and members stepped up to the microphones to tell the media how outraged they were.

So what’s the problem? It sounds like it’s already solved.

But is it really a good thing if this court decision is overturned? Any time you find yourself in agreement with more than 400 congressmen and the majority of the major media, you better double-check your premises!

In 1962, the Supreme Court told public schools that prayer was banned. Since then, indignant Christians have fought for a constitutional amendment and through the courts to restore that right. Forty years later, they have little to show for those efforts.

Right around the same time, parochial schools experienced a renaissance. Christian schools sprung up like weeds all over the countryside. If the schools were going to separate God from their kids, then these responsible parents were going to separate their children from the government schools.

I’m a product of that movement. My parents made the decision to switch me from a public to a Christian school in third grade—I’m glad they did. Now I’m a home-schooling parent, because I believe my children’s education is my responsibility.

Please understand that even the big-government liberals (in Congress and the media) don’t like this decision because they believed it was too bold—too much ado over a very little innocuous thing. The decision was overreaching, and it could’ve sounded a well-overdue second alarm for those few Christian parents who’ve refused to accept the truth up to this point — education and “religion” (for lack of a better term), cannot be separated. This decision could’ve added the necessary fuel to the fire needed to separate school and state.

Joseph Farah, publisher of WorldNetDaily, put it this way, “If responsible Christian and Jewish parents did this [took their children out of government schools] all over America tomorrow, it would set off a revolution in this country. Gone would be the multi-billion-dollar Department of Education boondoggle. Gone would be the condom education. Gone would be the sexual propaganda and the moral relativism. No way tens of millions of parents are going to continue to be soaked in taxes for schools they don't use. Not only will your children be liberated, the whole country would be. … It will be like the collapse of the Soviet Union—hundreds of millions of people freed overnight.”

Instead, the decision will be overturned, victory will be declared, and those Christian parents who insist on deluding themselves about the wonders of public education will remain where they are.

The government education factory will continue to teach those children all kinds of things that are alien to most Christian values in areas like the origin of man, sexuality, and especially the environment—but they’ll say the Pledge of Allegiance correctly!

Government schools will continue to endorse pantheism, teach secular humanism, and instruct students in post-modern thinking, even going so far as to directly challenge them to question the things their parents and churches teach them. … And then they’ll pass them to the fifth grade!

Studies indicate that 94 percent of the country believes there’s a God, 84 percent believe in Jesus Christ, and 80 percent support voluntary prayer in school. Is it reasonable for Christian’s to expect any higher numbers? Do Christians need to continue fighting for 40 more years to make government schools right, or should they learn their lesson and withdraw their support?

Besides, in this case, what’s there to fight for? Now I know for some I’m about to engage in great sacrilege — but what’s so great about the Pledge of Allegiance anyway?

Who else, but to God do we, as Christians, owe allegiance? Should we swear allegiance to a plot of land or the state that controls it (Exodus 20:3-5, Matthew 5:33-35)? (In our country, doesn’t the state owe its allegiance to the people, rather than the other way around?)

The pledge was created in 1892 by a socialist named Francis Bellamy as a way to begin indoctrination of children into utopian ways. At the time, Bellamy was a high-ranking official in the National Education Association (NEA) who had recently been forced from his pulpit as a Baptist minister.

The words that caused all the controversy—“under God” — weren’t in Bellamy’s original. They were added by Congress in 1954 to provide contrast between the United States and “godless communism.” Bellamy’s granddaughter said he would’ve resented the change.

And in the post-decision analysis Wednesday, constitutional scholars like Douglas Kmiec, Jonathan Turley, and others indicated that the Pledge didn’t establish, “any particular religion.” Rather, they advised, it upheld the tradition that we believe in some kind of a national “deity.” That’s the bold constitutional argument that will likely be used to “restore” the Pledge if this case makes it to the Supreme Court (sarcasm intended).

If “under God” is retained in the Pledge, will that really be much of a victory? If it makes 400 congressmen and the media happy, it’s probably not such a great thing. The need to separate school and state, the history and purpose of the pledge, and the lameness of the constitutional argument, lead me to believe that retaining those words is not only not worth a fight, but it’s also, ultimately, a loss.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: libertarians; paleolist
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; lockeliberty
Thanks for the ping. We reformed folk in W. Mich. have been doing our part. In the 30 mile radius from Grand Rapids there are:

some 25+ Christian feeder elementary and middle schools(same Chr. school sys)

6 Christian High Schools -ranging from about 400 students to over 1100 students per H.S. (same Chr. school sys.)

and 1 Christian College.

And that's not including all the Catholic, Lutheran and Baptist schools.

Jean

21 posted on 07/03/2002 9:05:47 PM PDT by Jean Chauvin
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To: gg188; Demidog; nunya bidness
Republican Party: A car in every garage. Democrat Party: A chicken in every pot. Libertarian Party: POT. Period.

Nope.

Christian Libertarianism in Action.

Your slur don't stick. Back to the drawing-board with you.

22 posted on 07/03/2002 9:10:45 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Jean Chauvin
Thanks for the ping. We reformed folk in W. Mich. have been doing our part. In the 30 mile radius from Grand Rapids there are: some 25+ Christian feeder elementary and middle schools(same Chr. school sys) 6 Christian High Schools -ranging from about 400 students to over 1100 students per H.S. (same Chr. school sys.)

Filed under my "last, best hope for the Republic" mental notes.

very cool. God bless.

23 posted on 07/03/2002 9:11:43 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Ah, those fun-loving Libertines. Everything they do just makes 'em seem cuddlier and cuddlier, doesn't it?
24 posted on 07/03/2002 9:14:54 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: truth_session
And how can a pledge be unconstitutional, it's a form of speech?

Because, said the court, a teacher "forces" pupils to say it, which makes it an "establishment of religion."

25 posted on 07/03/2002 9:17:12 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay; truth_session; Demidog
Because, said the court, a teacher "forces" pupils to say it, which makes it an "establishment of religion." 25 posted on 7/3/02 9:17 PM Pacific by Illbay

More importantly, the State forces Parents to pay exorbitant Property, Sales, and Income Taxes for Publik Skooling, and forces Parents to sacrifice their children to the State 40 hours a week.

Under such conditions, the Virtue of Religious Freedom is perverted into the Abomination of Force. One Size does not fit all; "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson"

There can be only one solution: Abolition of Government Schooling.

Not Compromise. Not Charter Schools. Not Vouchers.

Abolition.

26 posted on 07/03/2002 9:25:45 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Illbay
Did you read the article?
27 posted on 07/03/2002 9:26:44 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Having researched the history of "public" schools in this country I have to say that people of faith have no one but themselves to blame for the quagmire they're in now.

The problem wasn't whether there was faith in schools but rather which was the "right" faith.

Interesting that Horace Mann rejected Calvinism as a part of the process to create state schools.

What's your take?

28 posted on 07/03/2002 9:32:10 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
The Constitution endorses religion btw.
29 posted on 07/03/2002 9:42:11 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Nobody is stealing anyone's money. Gimme a break.

Maybe you should just say that state-funded public schools are unconstitutional, which they are not. Or maybe you should just say that school vouchers and school choice is the only honest way to deal with public education. Either way, we all agree to live under the law of the land and pay taxes to the public toilet, nobody is stealing anyone's money.
30 posted on 07/03/2002 9:46:04 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
In 1962 the Supreme court ignored the 1st Amendment as do many so-called Christians.
31 posted on 07/03/2002 9:47:42 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Let me take a shot at this. What is bad about the pledge decision is not that it divorces Christianity from schools, rather it is bad because of two specific aspects of the ruling. The first is that it establishes an religion and the second is that it prohibits the expression of religious speach in a public context.

Regardless of what the No-God set like to think, atheism is a religion. These folks believe that there is no god. Of course, you cannot prove this and so it must be based upon faith. A religion as much as Christianity or Islam. In prohibiting a reference to one god the Courts are establishing a religion in godlessness. That is just what the Constitution prohibits.

Second, the current position on references to God violates the free speach rights of persons in government and the majority of those who wish to observe religious tenets together in the public forum. American citizens have been told that there is a whole section of their lives in which they are barred from observing when they are in the public sphere. This is a pernicious view and smacks of Stalin or Hitler or any number of mean little dictators.

American citizens should be free to speak about God in any forum and in any context. The current Court has enacted a series of laws (not Constitutional positions, new laws under the guise of legal cases) which rob the public of their right to the common community expression of share values and religious views. Those in the minority must accept that the view that they have is not shared by the majority and that the majority has a "god" given right to believe as it chooses. That right includes the public expression of those views in all forums, including one created by the other expression of commonly shared values and goals - government.

32 posted on 07/03/2002 9:47:50 PM PDT by Dogrobber
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To: Illbay
Nobody is forced to say the pledge. There has already been a ruling stating that nobody has to say the pledge.
33 posted on 07/03/2002 9:49:16 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
I think the established religion that is being repected here is liberalism.

And once again, nobody is forced to say the pledge.
34 posted on 07/03/2002 9:50:59 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: A.J.Armitage
Of course. Why do you think I replied as I did?
35 posted on 07/03/2002 9:55:06 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: nunya bidness
"The problem wasn't whether there was faith in schools but rather which was the "right" faith."

Well, whose schools are they? The separate states (local government and individuals), the collective states (the federal goverment), the Christians, the athiests, etc.?

Which faith should be allowed in the public schools?
Why is Islam taught in the public schools but Christianity cannot?


36 posted on 07/03/2002 9:55:21 PM PDT by truth_session
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To: truth_session
But what opponents argue is that simply standing as a class to say the pledge puts an "undue burden" on those who don't wish to participate.

They become objects of scorn and derision. They become--*GASP!*--VICTIMS OF HATE CRIME!

37 posted on 07/03/2002 9:56:58 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
"One Nation, Under God, 'n Divisible, with Liberty..."

LOL!

38 posted on 07/03/2002 10:01:27 PM PDT by sheltonmac
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To: truth_session
I posted a link to an article that I wrote that specifically addressed the issue of local versus federal in terms of schooling.

The problem wasn't that religion could be discussed in school but rather that religion became the wedge the state used to divide and conquer the local schools.

Once the content was granted to a central authority the fight was over. The God became the state.

39 posted on 07/03/2002 10:03:10 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: A.J.Armitage
bump
40 posted on 07/03/2002 10:03:30 PM PDT by mafree
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