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Bush sharing his faith
NandoTimes ^ | July 1, 2002 | Bill Straub

Posted on 07/02/2002 2:11:50 PM PDT by Alan Chapman

President Bush is taking the tone of a preacher again, declaring that Americans have "received our rights from God" and that he feels "the prayers of the people" as he carries out his duties.

In Cleveland on Monday, at what was characterized as a Rally on Inner City Compassion, Bush sought to rally support behind his faith-based initiative. He asserted that the United States "should not fear programs which exist because a church or synagogue or mosque has decided to start one."

Since taking office, Bush has frequently cited his Christian beliefs and his desire for religion to play an increased role in American society - a stance that has drawn objections from secularists and civil libertarians.

Bush says that faith helped him in his own battle with the bottle, and he maintains that religious convictions can help an individual - and society - in need.

He cited his religious beliefs last week after a federal appeals court prohibited schoolchildren from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance because it contains the phrase "one nation, under God," in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

Bush, responding to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decision, said that the United States is "a nation that values our relationship with an Almighty" and that citing God in the pledge "doesn't violate rights."

"As a matter of fact, it's a confirmation of the fact that we received our rights from God, as proclaimed in our Declaration of Independence," he said at a news conference in Alberta, during the Group of Eight summit.

At the same news conference, Bush also mentioned that he had visited with victims of the Arizona wildfires earlier in the week and found them to be "hurting a lot."

"And I was trying to figure out how to bring a sense of hope, and I thought that the best thing I could say was that there is a God who loves them," Bush said. "And I believe that's the case. And as a result, I feel comfortable in my life because I have that belief and understanding."

The Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said Bush's proselytizing runs the risk of blurring the line between religious practices and running the government.

"He does not seem to want to keep even a decent distance between government and religion," Lynn said. "He wants to mesh the two together in whatever manner he can create. "

For a short time after Sept. 11, Lynn said, Bush appeared to embrace diverse viewpoints.

"Now it's full speed ahead to prove the Religious Right is sitting in the Oval Office," he said.

According to Lynn, Bush may in fact have unwittingly hinted that he intends to violate the Constitution regarding the appointment of federal judges.

In criticizing the 9th Circuit's decision, Bush said the United States needs "commonsense judges who understand that our rights were derived from God. And those are the kind of judges I intend to put on the bench."

Article 6 of the Constitution expressly states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office of public trust under the United States."

"He said if you're not religious, you can't be a judge," Lynn said. "That violates a central principle of our constitutional system."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
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To: My2Cents
You mean you don't think Lynn is apostate?

Wow.....he left the faith a long time ago if he ever was a Christian.
61 posted on 07/02/2002 4:51:50 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: Alan Chapman
Barry Lynne and that dude who challenged the Pledge in California seem like two people with whom I'd least like to spend an evening. In other words, on the human level, they seem to be lacking.
62 posted on 07/02/2002 4:51:58 PM PDT by Paraclete
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To: Alan Chapman
GW is not violating the Constitution by asking people to uphold founding principles of our government. That is not a religious test but a philosophical test.
63 posted on 07/02/2002 4:53:36 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: roberbaran
It doesn't matter if it is a law or not. The courts strike down all sorts of references to God and if they are consistent, they will strike the Declaration down if somebody passes a law to post it in public schools.

"It specifies Life, but has a death penalty." Because people in jail lose the rights given to them because they committed crimes. Or, is that concept lost on you, LIBERAL?
64 posted on 07/02/2002 4:56:26 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: Alan Chapman
Folks, I am done arguing on this thread.

The two attacking GW are:

1) a libertarian
2) an atheist

That is all that needs to be said to establish their motives and credibility on this Constitutional question. I don't see any sense in arguing with fake conservatives like these two.
65 posted on 07/02/2002 4:59:47 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: Paraclete
Barry Lynne and that dude who challenged the Pledge in California seem like two people with whom I'd least like to spend an evening.

In a free society you should be free to associate, or not associate, with whomever you wish.

66 posted on 07/02/2002 5:05:39 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: rwfromkansas
GW is not violating the Constitution by asking people to uphold founding principles of our government. That is not a religious test but a philosophical test.

If somebody believes in the founding principles of our government, but is an atheist, do you believe he'd get the job?

67 posted on 07/02/2002 5:11:16 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: rwfromkansas
The two attacking GW are: 1) a libertarian 2) an atheist That is all that needs to be said to establish their motives and credibility...I don't see any sense in arguing with fake conservatives like these two.

Argumentum ad Hominem.

Truth can stand on its own merit. Only lies need the force of government for their advancement.

68 posted on 07/02/2002 5:27:12 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: roberbaran
That's the same doc that said "Life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness" while the USA was a slave country.

I love this line of reasoning. Because Jefferson owned slaves, there's no such thing as liberty? Is that your point?

Here's a challenge. Tell me why slavery is wrong, without citing the principles stated in the Declaration of Independence -- namely, that rights come from the Creator, and not from other people or governments.

The single most important political idea in the last 2 million years, and you are willing to dismiss it because Thomas Jefferson owned slaves?

69 posted on 07/02/2002 5:55:59 PM PDT by Maceman
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To: Alan Chapman
They can't believe in natural law without believing in God. There are other places they can serve in government, but as GW Bush said, we need judges that "understand our rights are derived from God." This is plain natural law and is hardly a religious test.
70 posted on 07/02/2002 5:58:39 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
They can't believe in natural law without believing in God.

Even if I were to agree with you I don't really see how this is relevant.

There are other places they can serve in government, but as GW Bush said, we need judges that "understand our rights are derived from God." This is plain natural law and is hardly a religious test.

What we need are judges that understand the concept of rights. I don't know how GWB can appoint such judges when he has a profound misunderstanding of the concept himself. Obviously he believes the right to keep and bear arms is an arbitrary thing to be determined by government since he promised to enforce unconstitutional gun-control laws. It's reasonable to assume he'll appoint judges with the same profound misunderstanding.

It wasn't necessary for GWB to make any kind of comment as to how he intended to choose judges. He made the comment to gain favor with a certain group of people.

71 posted on 07/02/2002 6:11:29 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: Alan Chapman
Interestingly, some atheists are under the impression that certain religious zealots are elitist and pompas about not only forcing God into government, but using the force of government to coerce the financing of and participation in religion.

Who? What groups want the U.S. government to force ppl to participate in a certain religion? Could you be referring to the religious zealots of evolution, atheism, abortion, tax theivery, homosexuality, socialism, liberalism?

Would deny my child to speak of Jesus Christ in a public classroom?

72 posted on 07/02/2002 7:34:40 PM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: Alan Chapman
The only criteria the president should apply when appointing judges is wether or not the candidates understand the concept of rights and liberty, separation of powers, federalism, state sovereignty, and wether they can read plain English.

The crafters of the Constitution understood that rights were unalienable and granted by the creator. Bush has the same understanding. Whats the problem?

73 posted on 07/02/2002 7:40:54 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: sirchtruth
What groups want the U.S. government to force ppl to participate in a certain religion?

[Should there be coerced participation in prayer-time at the beginning of each school day? Suppose other children in the class don't ascribe to the same religion. Is that just too bad in your view?] -- AC

Yes. -- Texasforever (link)

How many people advocating prayer-time, Bible-study clubs, graduation prayer, and the 10 Commandments on the walls in government schools think the same way as Texasforever?

Would deny my child to speak of Jesus Christ in a public classroom?

If I had my way there would be no income, SS, property, capital gains, death tax, or government school. You'd be able to keep your hard-earned money and send your child to a school which advocates values consistent with your own. And your child would be free to talk about Jesus as much as (s)he wants.

74 posted on 07/02/2002 8:47:18 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: BillinDenver
True, but Maryland was a Catholic colony. They wouldn't have signed on if it discriminated against Catholics.

75 posted on 07/02/2002 8:52:33 PM PDT by jae471
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To: jwalsh07
The crafters of the Constitution understood that rights were unalienable and granted by the creator.

That may be true but it isn't relevant.

Bush has the same understanding. Whats the problem?

That unless one believes in the same god that GWB believes in one is disqualified from serving on the bench.

The question shouldn't be asked as to the belief or disbelief in a god. If I was the president my test of prospective judges would look something like this:

But, like I said before, the statement was made to win political points. It was said to gain favor with a particular group of people. Just look at the reaction it's generating on this forum. People actually believe that GWB understands the concept of rights (even though he intends to continue subjugating them).

76 posted on 07/02/2002 9:06:58 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: Alan Chapman
That unless one believes in the same god that GWB believes in one is disqualified from serving on the bench.

Prove this statement or withdraw it. You don't have a right to conjure up words and insert them in another's mouth.

I would like to see a quote from Bush stating that unless you believe in the same God he does, you are disqualified from serving on the bench.

Good luck, you'll need it.

77 posted on 07/03/2002 5:53:24 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Alan Chapman
Rebuttal takes effort, yes, but Rev. Lynn's comments are not worth the effort.
78 posted on 07/03/2002 8:42:38 AM PDT by My2Cents
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To: rwfromkansas
Frankly, I don't know whether the "Reverend" Lynn is apostate or not. I'll let the Lord decide. I know nothing of him, but his moronic comment in the posted article, and a bit about the misguided and unfortunate organization he's associated with.
79 posted on 07/03/2002 8:45:38 AM PDT by My2Cents
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To: Maceman
>I love this line of reasoning. Because Jefferson owned slaves, there's no such thing as liberty? Is that your point?

>The single most important political idea in the last 2 million years, and you are willing to dismiss it because Thomas Jefferson owned slaves?

My point (had you bothered to read my post) was only that the DoI is not a law, because it has no legal force. I like the DoI. I love what it stands for. But, it's not a law. And (before somebody else gets bent out of shape), yes, I agree, it has had a formative influence on the laws of this country.

But, it is not a law.

80 posted on 07/03/2002 10:49:54 AM PDT by roberbaran
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