[seamus]

Game. Set. Match.

Not so fast, my Bullish friend. It is not voluntary for the state-run schools to lead the class in the pledge -- at least it is not in Virginia, where schools are directed by the state government and the local school boards to lead the pledge, and I presume it's that way in California, too. That is why this case abuts the Establishment Clause. While individuals can opt-out, it is still the state making a statement that endorses monotheism.

[Dr. Frank fan]

It is not voluntary for the state-run schools to lead the class in the pledge -- at least it is not in Virginia, where schools are directed by the state government and the local school boards to lead the pledge, and I presume it's that way in California, too.

So it is voluntary - voluntary on the part of the States.

That is why this case abuts the Establishment Clause. While individuals can opt-out, it is still the state making a statement that endorses monotheism.

You, my friend, have just illustrated why this case is not about the Establishment Clause.

The First Amendment doesn't prohibit the States from doing a darn thing!

[Southack]

"It is not voluntary for the state-run schools to lead the class in the pledge -- at least it is not in Virginia, where schools are directed by the state government and the local school boards to lead the pledge..."

That's incorrect.

The state has merely scheduled the Pledge.

The state can not legally override the U.S. Supreme Court, after all, and the SCOTUS has already ruled that in every case, the Pledge is voluntary (even for teachers in Virginia who have been told the time for the Pledge to be led).

Thus, the Pledge can not be banned, even in classrooms.

Voluntary speech can not be banned.

[rwfromkansas]

Regardless, it is not an establishment of religion.

[Siobhan]

You do realize that polytheists like the Hindus for example you the expression "God" to signify their entire pantheon or a chief god among the many. "Under God" is not strictly speaking an endorsement of monotheism as you have put forward.

[GovernmentShrinker]

And the state, along with the federal government, is confiscating the money of private citizens, and using it to run the schools, which are required to lead this endorsement of a particular form of religion.

Frankly, the state requiring teachers to lead this pledge with the "under God" clause included is on even shakier ground than having the kids "voluntarily" recite it. At least the kids CAN opt out, but apparently many states are requiring the teachers to recite it.

Personally, I'd solve the whole mess by putting an end to public schools. At least the Supremes took an important baby step towards that possibility last week.