Two America West pilots charged with showing up drunk

WSVN | 07/01/02

[Lazamataz]

MIAMI, July 1 (Reuters) - Police arrested two commercial airline pilots on Monday at Miami International Airport, and a local television station said the pair had shown up drunk in the cockpit.

Television station WSVN said the America West pilots were preparing to take off on a flight to Phoenix, Arizona, when police took them off the plane. Tests showed they were legally drunk, the station said.

Miami-Dade County Police could not immediately confirm the details but said they had arrested the two pilots at the airport. An America West spokeswoman at the company's headquarters, in Phoenix, was not immediately available for comment.

[SamAdams76]

That's a very good point. I didn't even think of that.

[NautiNurse]

Bombed on board the aircraft - FNC

[safisoft]

Everybody knows what a stewardess is. Drop the PC garbage.

Actually, the demise of the "stewardess" predates PC. There was a redefining of the role in the late 70s and early 80s that the FAA initiated which reemphasized safety vs. service. It was not simply the gender issue. Flight Attendants' role is primarily safety and it is not considered lightly by the FAA or the airlines.

[safisoft]

There isn't ANY excuse for showing up with even a 0.03 blood alcohol limit, much less 0.091 like the two clowns in Miami, and I don't give a damn how bad a CEO Bill Franke was. There just isn't any excuse!

You are absolutely correct. These days most airline pilots are so paranoid of being FALSELY accused by a disgruntled fellow crewmember that they will not drink at all during any length of a layover. The somewhat mythical days of the hard-living, hard-drinking airline pilot have been gone for quite a while. But then idiots like these HP guys crop up and we all wonder what they were thinking...

They will fry.

[safisoft]

You seem to be the one who is misinformed about the airline industry. >

Right. You missed my point. BTW, I could not possibly be "misinformed about the airline industry" - I am an airline pilot. I have flown the line for 22 years. I am also an instructor for the major airline that I work for (not America West).

By using the term, "stewardess" and now in this post you showed your ignorance of the industry. Regardless of reporters' ignorance on the matter, anyone with any knowledge of the industry would not use the term "stewardess" - which goes back to your original "knowledgable" post about how even a 13 year old could do an airline pilot's job. Obviously, you are clueless about both what an airline pilot actually does as well as the role of Flight Attendants - hence you are simply mouthing off and have not basis of fact to your "comments."

[Texas Mom]

Oh dear. And you people want to give them guns? Oh, the humanity!

I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to come up with that.

[safisoft]

I knew when I put that up there, some guy would jump in and tell me all about the ancillary time it takes to get them 80 (oh, please, 75 is real common) hours a month.

Your rant sounds more like a wanna-be's. I fly the line, I instruct, and I also write software for the airline I work for. I know what I am talking about, and I am not whinning about your job, nor was I comparing it to yours. I was simply responding to your FALSE statement. If you indeed know anything at all about the industry, then you know full well that "75 hours a month" was a lie. An airline pilot's job is a good job. It pays well. It also has downsides. The "75 hour a month" line is tired and a flat out lie. The vast majority of airline pilots not only have 20/20 vision they also hold higher degrees as well. You have no clue how many people I fly with have engineering degrees. As a single group of people we are the most prodded, poked, tested and regulated there are.

BTW, when was the last time you spent 14 hours on duty (and only paid for 6 hours of it), after 8 legs and ended with an approach to minimums - to look forward to a 9:15 layover at a dumpy motel and a 5:30 AM wakeup to do it all again... clearly NEVER.

[safisoft]

And who says it is? BTW, those who fly military fighter planes such as the F-18 are on a far different level than those who fly commercial aircraft. Not even the same league. Commercial piloting is more akin to truck driving, whether you care to admit it or not.

Who do you think flies commercial aircraft, son? You think the FA-18 or F-16 pilot flies that forever? Many, after serving their committment go fly for a major airline. When you dump on airline pilots, you are dumping on a huge number of former fighter pilots.

And because you may be a little uninformed about what a FA-18 pilot does... it isn't all dogfights. 95% is spent in boring level flight going to the next refueling.

Just because you may FEEL like you are in a bus or a truck when you are FLYING IN THE BACK of an airliner, does not mean that you know anything about what it is like where I sit. You do not know what you are talking about. Quit while you are ahead.

[Texas Mom]

Going through life as a myopic, bitter little waste of sperm is a horrible realization of your shortcomings. Your comments speak volumes about your petty jealousy. Sorry life didn't work out for you. Vote Dem.

BIG GRIN! I love it..

[Alabama_Wild_Man]

You mean - like - "How Many Northwest Pilots Does It Take to Fly a Plane" ??

. . . ans . . . . Two and a Fifth !! !!

[Texas Mom]

now they have all those silly rules about not going to the lavoratory within 30 minutes of landing, etc.

Those silly rules are coming from the FAA not the airline and the last I heard the 30 minute rule only applies to landings in Washington D.C.

[safisoft]

That don't sound like a lot of fun. Why not just buy a nice ultra light for about $10,000, fly it when and where you want to, and leave all the BS, whiny passengers and stress behind? I have a pilot friend that did exactly that. He just didn't want to put up with all the garbage that goes along with it. He says life is to short for all the supervisors, egos and regulations.

Great point. With the state of the industry and the degradation of the job in the past few years, I personally know many of our ranks who are doing just that. I have 3 friends had had enough, and just up and quit last month... to go to other jobs making a fraction of what they were making here. They did it for the same reasons many of us think of it... to get our lives back. To spend more time with our wives and our kids. And to once and for all get rid of the highly regulated life... Challenging work is good, but sometimes you want to just go back to a simpler way.

[Tuor]

My only comments about this:

1. I don't consider anything less than 1% BAC to be considered 'drunk.' I'm sure they could've flown the plane just fine.

2. I do consider these two pilots to be monumentally stupid in arriving to work after having had anything to drink. That sort of poor judgement makes me not want them to fly me anywhere.

Tuor

Give me liberty or give me death.

[safisoft]

I love the standard pilots are held to. If one guy screws up, then we are all morons. However, if someone does a great job, then that is something any 13yo can accomplish with the proper training.

Well stated brother. Those who know better keep their traps shut on this topic. The wanna-be's come out every time and just show WHY they are WHERE they are...

I work with heroes every day. Some bozos do not know how often their lives have been in good hands. "Regulator" is a perfect handle.

[safisoft]

I'm sorry, but this is just too easy. Provoking jerks like you into slobbering insults is really too much fun.

I learned as a young man that provocation is generally the act of a small man. "Sport" is about personal achievement - not belittling of others...

[skateman]

Are you professionally ignorant, or are you just talking to read yourself? Pilots to NOT have "pleanty of down time" between duty cycles. Once you begin a trip you are governed by FARs which permit an AVERAGE of 12 hours off between 14 hour duty periods.

I believe that Sam was referring to the fact that most pilots have days off between trips. Within a given duty cycle you are correct, but a friend of mine who flew L-1011's for Delta would be off sometimes a week at a time between "duty cycles". Plenty of time during that time to drink all that one wants to. BTW my friend does not drink.

[ProudAmerican2]

Quit while you are ahead.

Correction: Quit while you are BEHIND.

[safisoft]

I believe that Sam was referring to the fact that most pilots have days off between trips.

Yes. That is generally correct, although the rules in advance of going on duty apply - not only for drinking but also for rest and scuba etc. For instance, a pilot is NOT free to do whatever he/she wants within the hours preceding a flight - even if at home. Those limitations do not only apply to drinking, but to rest, scuba, and most over-the-counter medications. There is actually a longer time required for things like cold medicine etc. An example: If a pilot got off duty and came down with a cold - and had 2 days off before going back to fly, he would only have the first 24 hours to medicate, and then have to stop.

The most baffling thing about this America West story is that the pilots could have lost track of time. This is something we do all the time even when we are at home. Even those who do not drink: we keep a running time to our next flight to remain legal on these issues. The FAA has even imposed strict limitations on rest. For instance, a pilot who lives in LA and who works out of New York is supposed to count his commuting time to New York even though that is commuting on his time off. That time cannot count as rest in preparation for a flight. In some cases NTSB judges even count time that the pilot spends driving to work as "non-rest". The FAA rules on rest are extremely complex and because of that, we as pilots usually err on the side of caution with regard to FAA time limits. That is why these America West pilots clearly messed up on more than simply drinking too close to flying... the messed up on "airline pilot" 101: "Know your time. Know your limits." Everyone is watching, you WILL get caught in ANY infraction.

[jsraggmann]

I have been flying for the airlines since 1978 and times certainly have changed. Gone forever are the days when a full month's flying could be accomplished in 12 days. It now takes about 16-18 days to get my 85hrs, and that doesn't include commuting. 12-14 hr days are not uncommon and neither are minimum rest overnights. It's still a great job, probably the best job in the world if you work for someone else. The two guys in Miami have thrown away their careers, they are done flying. Now the rest of us will have to listen to the stupid jokes that are sure to come. By the way, I refuse to try and reason with wanna-be astronuts and others that refer to FAs as "stewardess". Fly safe!

[Joe Hadenuf]

My pilot buddy moved out to the southern California high desert, and now flys almost every weekend from a dirt strip with his custom ultra light. He now works at a tree nursery and makes much less money.

But he is a much happier guy. When he was with United, he was not a very happy camper. He told me all his life he wanted to be an airlines pilot, and once he achieved that, he discovered the life style and job was not just not for him, so he bailed, bought a beautiful spanish style home on a hill, in high desert and got married and are about to have their second child.