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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
"Now, using your logic, if celibacy is a doctrine of the devil as you incorrectly assert, then Jesus and Paul were Satanists, along with Melchizedek, Elias, John the Baptist and the Apostles, amongst many others. "

Wrong. You are distorting my position. Celibacy is not evil, but mandated celibacy for some religious REQUIREMENT is.

"The Catholic Church forbids the Sacrament of Marriage to no one."

Priests cannot marry, and nowhere in the Bible is a priest forbidden to marry. Yes, indeed, they took a vow to do so, but where in the Bible is there a rule that you must take a vow to be a priest? In fact, the priests of Catholocism are not biblical at all. Purely man's tradition.
32 posted on 06/29/2002 4:42:13 PM PDT by B.R. Burton
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To: B.R. Burton
I believe it should be optional because the Bible never commands celibacy, and calls the rule of celibacy a doctrine of demons.

Wrong. You are distorting my position. Celibacy is not evil, but mandated celibacy for some religious REQUIREMENT is.

No distortion at all. just using what you've written verbatim to disprove your argument. You need to make up your mind and stop the tap dance. Are you now inferring that a "doctrine of demons" as you earlier claimed celibacy to be, is in fact not evil? You are contradicting yourself. You do understand that celibacy is a discipline and not a doctrine, don't you? You also no doubt understand that Christ counsels His followers to perfection: Matthew 5:48, 16:24, 22:30. The vows of poverty, celibacy and obedience are part of that counsel. Christ Himself was celibate, obedient and lived a life of poverty. He also tells us that in heaven we shall neither marry nor be married. Obviously celibacy is a higher calling and hardly a "doctrine of demons," as you would want us all to believe. You ignored the question about why so few "Bible believing" ministers practiced the discipline. One has to wonder why.

Priests cannot marry, and nowhere in the Bible is a priest forbidden to marry. Yes, indeed, they took a vow to do so, but where in the Bible is there a rule that you must take a vow to be a priest? In fact, the priests of Catholocism are not biblical at all. Purely man's tradition.

Incorrect. Paul wrote that bishops and deacons could only be married once. If they were widowers and remarried they were not to be chosen. Priests who were baptized Catholics cannot remain in active ministry and marry in the Latin Rite. Priests can request laicization and then marry if they choose. Once the Sacrament of Holy Orders, ordination, is conferred upon a man he remains a priest even if laicized. A laicized priest may not administer the Sacraments. A person only ceases to be a priest when he is dismissed, known in the secular world as "defrocked", from the priesthood. You do know of course that there are priests in the Catholic Church who are married, don't you? Married Protestant ministers who convert to the Latin Rite may, with the Popes approval, be ordained and remain married. However, they agree, prior to ordination, that if their spouse should die that they will adopt the discipline of celibacy and be as Paul wrote "the husband of one wife,". You also surely know that there are 22 Churches in communion that form the Catholic Church, don't you? As for your claim that "the priests of Catholocism(sic) are not biblical at all. Purely man's tradition." you also know that that is false or you are ignorant of Scripture. The word priest first appears in Scripture in Genesis 14:18 with regard to Melchisedech. We also read in Psalm 109 that once a priest always a priest. In Hebrews 7 and 8 we read of the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech, a priest without geneology; no wife and no children.

We know from John 21:25 that not everything Jesus did was written down and we also know that Apostolic Tradition, whether oral or written, is to be adhered to: 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:14, 3:6. We also know that the Apostles gave up everything to follow Christ according to His instructions.

Where in Scripture is it written that one must take vows in order to be married? That discipline should be done away with as well, right? Where in the Bible do we find the words "incarnation", "Trinity" and "Bible"? We do know that the Apostles made solemn promises to Christ in order to follow Him. A vow is a solemn promise to God. There were no caveats. You also know where the Bible came from as well, don't you? Another thing we know from Scripture is that "Bible alone" isn't in there. It's nothing more than a man made doctrine.

34 posted on 06/29/2002 7:08:46 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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