Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: B.R. Burton
I believe it should be optional because the Bible never commands celibacy, and calls the rule of celibacy a doctrine of demons.

Wrong. You are distorting my position. Celibacy is not evil, but mandated celibacy for some religious REQUIREMENT is.

No distortion at all. just using what you've written verbatim to disprove your argument. You need to make up your mind and stop the tap dance. Are you now inferring that a "doctrine of demons" as you earlier claimed celibacy to be, is in fact not evil? You are contradicting yourself. You do understand that celibacy is a discipline and not a doctrine, don't you? You also no doubt understand that Christ counsels His followers to perfection: Matthew 5:48, 16:24, 22:30. The vows of poverty, celibacy and obedience are part of that counsel. Christ Himself was celibate, obedient and lived a life of poverty. He also tells us that in heaven we shall neither marry nor be married. Obviously celibacy is a higher calling and hardly a "doctrine of demons," as you would want us all to believe. You ignored the question about why so few "Bible believing" ministers practiced the discipline. One has to wonder why.

Priests cannot marry, and nowhere in the Bible is a priest forbidden to marry. Yes, indeed, they took a vow to do so, but where in the Bible is there a rule that you must take a vow to be a priest? In fact, the priests of Catholocism are not biblical at all. Purely man's tradition.

Incorrect. Paul wrote that bishops and deacons could only be married once. If they were widowers and remarried they were not to be chosen. Priests who were baptized Catholics cannot remain in active ministry and marry in the Latin Rite. Priests can request laicization and then marry if they choose. Once the Sacrament of Holy Orders, ordination, is conferred upon a man he remains a priest even if laicized. A laicized priest may not administer the Sacraments. A person only ceases to be a priest when he is dismissed, known in the secular world as "defrocked", from the priesthood. You do know of course that there are priests in the Catholic Church who are married, don't you? Married Protestant ministers who convert to the Latin Rite may, with the Popes approval, be ordained and remain married. However, they agree, prior to ordination, that if their spouse should die that they will adopt the discipline of celibacy and be as Paul wrote "the husband of one wife,". You also surely know that there are 22 Churches in communion that form the Catholic Church, don't you? As for your claim that "the priests of Catholocism(sic) are not biblical at all. Purely man's tradition." you also know that that is false or you are ignorant of Scripture. The word priest first appears in Scripture in Genesis 14:18 with regard to Melchisedech. We also read in Psalm 109 that once a priest always a priest. In Hebrews 7 and 8 we read of the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech, a priest without geneology; no wife and no children.

We know from John 21:25 that not everything Jesus did was written down and we also know that Apostolic Tradition, whether oral or written, is to be adhered to: 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:14, 3:6. We also know that the Apostles gave up everything to follow Christ according to His instructions.

Where in Scripture is it written that one must take vows in order to be married? That discipline should be done away with as well, right? Where in the Bible do we find the words "incarnation", "Trinity" and "Bible"? We do know that the Apostles made solemn promises to Christ in order to follow Him. A vow is a solemn promise to God. There were no caveats. You also know where the Bible came from as well, don't you? Another thing we know from Scripture is that "Bible alone" isn't in there. It's nothing more than a man made doctrine.

34 posted on 06/29/2002 7:08:46 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies ]


To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
"Are you now inferring that a "doctrine of demons" as you earlier claimed celibacy to be, is in fact not evil?"

Yes, there was distortion, as I specifically stated the RULE of celibacy.
"You are contradicting yourself."

No, I've been quite consistent in my arguments here.

"Christ Himself was celibate, obedient and lived a life of poverty."

The Messiah will MARRY the Church. So if he were married to another, that would exclude Him from marrying His Bride.

"He also tells us that in heaven we shall neither marry nor be married. Obviously celibacy is a higher calling and hardly a "doctrine of demons,"

Not quite. We shall be married to the Lord, corporately, as part of the Bride. We shall neither marry nor be married, not for some reason of celibacy, but because the nature of our glorified bodies.

"The word priest first appears in Scripture in Genesis 14:18 with regard to Melchisedech. We also read in Psalm 109 that once a priest always a priest. In Hebrews 7 and 8 we read of the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech, a priest without geneology; no wife and no children."

Malki-Tzaddik was the King of Jerusalem, and Priest, and was not of the geneology of Aharon. He is a picture of the Messiah.

"We also know that the Apostles gave up everything to follow Christ according to His instructions."

Right.

"Where in Scripture is it written that one must take vows in order to be married? That discipline should be done away with as well, right?"

If man's tradition contradicts God's tradition, then man's tradition should be done away with. This is simply man's tradition, and doesn't intrude on Scripture. Moreover, this simply proves my point, the tradition of Catholic priests, and not only Catholic but Orthodox and any religion outside of Judaism that officially has a "priest" - is not Biblical. Now, ALL believers are priests. That the Bible DOES say.

"Where in the Bible do we find the ords "incarnation", "Trinity" and "Bible"?"

The first two are not there, the third could probably be translated into "Book", biblos, I guess, but the concepts are there. The concept of the various man-made traditions of the Catholic church, and some other mainstream Christian denominations are not there. For instance, Easter. Easter comes from the pagan word, ISHTAR. In fact the Messiah WAS NOT RESURRECTED ON EASTER - HE WAS RESURRECTED ON YOM HABIKKURIM. The Messiah was NOT born on Christmas. He was born on Sukkot. The Messiah did NOT die on Good Friday. He died on Passover. . . etc.

"You also know where the Bible came from as well, don't you?"

Of course. I know the history of its writing and codification.

"Another thing we know from Scripture is that "Bible alone" isn't in there. It's nothing more than a man made doctrine."

God's Word is enough to guide the feet of those in darkness, as it is a lamp unto one's feet, and if a doctrine contradicts its Word, then it should be discarded. I have many extra-Biblical books that help give insight to its words, etc., but all things should be weighed against Scripture. That's why I made my original comment here. I do not like agreeing with Left-wing liberals, cafeteria catholics or anyone who would seek to diminish the major force for good that the Catholic Church creates.
36 posted on 06/29/2002 11:28:54 PM PDT by B.R. Burton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson