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To: mhking
Of course, it is perfectly OK for the nonreligious to impose their religious beliefs upon those of others, yes?

If a teacher were leading a classroom in the recital of an anti-religious pledge - that is, if the pledge recited "one nation, without a god", for example - then you would have a point.

But, no, the teacher is leading the class in a pledge that says "one nation, under god."

Furthermore, this pledge is NOT just a pledge to the flag and to the republic, as you assert, but also, as it currently stands, to an unknown entity that not everyone believes exists, nor does every parent want their children indoctrinated in such a belief.

Your comments are indicative of someone who does not want government to be limited or smaller. Rather, they are indicative of one who would like a big government that promotes his/her own personal beliefs and indoctrinates our children in them. And that is socialist AND anti-American.

1,053 posted on 06/26/2002 2:56:42 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: Tired of Taxes
If a teacher were leading a classroom in the recital of an anti-religious pledge - that is, if the pledge recited "one nation, without a god", for example - then you would have a point.

An interesting point... I hope no Left-leaning teachers read it and get some ideas. =^/

Furthermore, this pledge is NOT just a pledge to the flag and to the republic, as you assert, but also, as it currently stands, to an unknown entity that not everyone believes exists, nor does every parent want their children indoctrinated in such a belief.

That is not correct. The pledge is "to the flag", and "to the Republic". The four qualifiers that come after that ("one nation", "under God", "indivisible", and "with Liberty and Justice for all") all describe the Republic, and are not more ideas that are being given an oath of support. One would think that the atheists could simply stand mute for those two words if they believe that this nations is not/cannot be "under God", but we don't live in a society that can rely on mature behavior or decent parental advice from adults, unfortunately. If the pledge is a TOTAL affront to them, let them remove their kids from the public schools just as the religious Right families do due to the influx of non-Christian and anti-Christian ideas.

Your comments are indicative of someone who does not want government to be limited or smaller. Rather, they are indicative of one who would like a big government that promotes his/her own personal beliefs and indoctrinates our children in them. And that is socialist AND anti-American.

This reminds me of a GREAT thread from almost two years ago that discussed the double-edged sword of mandating a pledge to Freedom. It's a fine philosophical line, and an important one.

1,128 posted on 06/26/2002 4:12:15 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Tired of Taxes
Furthermore, this pledge is NOT just a pledge to the flag and to the republic, as you assert, but also, as it currently stands, to an unknown entity that not everyone believes exists, nor does every parent want their children indoctrinated in such a belief.

That is incorrect - contrary to popular belief, the pledge is not a pledge to God. The phrase "under God" is a phrase that describes the nation.

This is not an issue of indoctrination. This is a matter of an individual exerting his will on the 95% of the individuals in this country who not only believe in the existance of God in some form, but those same persons who believe that God or some other higher being is responsible for our being here.

You cannot penalize 95% of Americans because one father and two judges are mind-numbed idiots...

1,165 posted on 06/26/2002 5:06:43 PM PDT by mhking
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