(Vanity) Explain to me why it's "OK" for Israel to have settlements on The West Bank?

My Mind ^ | June 25th, 2002 | Johnny Shear

[Johnny Shear]

This is an honest question, no offense towards anyone is intended...

I won't try to claim I'm any kind of scholar on the subject of Isreal Settlements but I have done a bit of research on the subject. Yet, one question still remains...

I can't justify the Isreal Settlements in The West Bank and Gaza...In my own mind, anyway...

As far as I can tell, Isreal officially justifies these settlements based on the fact that they lay claim to Gaza and the West Bank due to defeating Arab aggressors in the 1967 war. And, Isreal is still technically at war with some Arab states so they can continue occupying these areas...

What I don't understand is how they justify the settlements. Occupation is one thing (Based on protecting themselves against an aggressor) but settlements are something completely different (In my opinion, anyway).

If anyone can educate me, I know Freepers can. And as a bonus, if anyone can supply information or sources on how the Palestinians "See Things", that would be great. (In the spirit of "Two sides to every story").

[SteamshipTime]

Read your James Madison and Federalist Papers. The "general welfare" clause was descriptive of the enumerated powers and not a spending power in itself. The "general welfare" and "interstate commerce" canards for unlimited federal spending and regulation have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked.

[Alouette]

The fact is the more zealous of the settlers have done things that, had they been done by Arabs, the Eretz Israel crowd would be using as examples of why all Arabs are evil.

What "things" have they actually done?

They have been accused of a variety of crimes they did not commit, such as, blood in the Purim cookies, or, assorted unsolved drive-by shootings of Palestinian families subsequently revealed to have been "collaborators," but, apart from the Goldstein rampage of 8 years ago, can you provide a recent, documented, proven atrocity actually committed by a Hebron Jew? Something "typical" like tearing apart a human being with their bare hands (such as the act commemorated by the Palestinian child pictured in my post #278), or shooting a 10-month-old baby in the head (like Shalhevet Pass), or skinning alive a boy hiking in the wadi (like the 14 year olds Yossi Ish Ran and Koby Mandell--who BTW was a U.S. citizen)

[spqrzilla9]

Art I section 8 states

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

No one has "debunked" the concept that this clause provides for Congress' power to spend money for a broad range of purposes which would include the foreign relations of the nation.

[Stand Watch Listen]

....they simply "Occupied" it, and now we have all these problems.

NOW have all these present day problems? Seems to me that numerous Arabs armies were allied against Israel for some time prior to 'all these problems'. Israel didn't occupy' it prior to the 1967 'war'. What would you state the problems were prior 1967?

[E Rocc]

every nation on Earth agrees don't belong where they are

"Every nation on Earth"? Well, there's Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc...France probably qualifies.

If they signed the Geneva Convention they do. UN Geneva Conference Adjourned.

The 103 countries attending the Swiss-chaired conference unanimously published a statement saying that the Geneva Convention on the conduct of war is applicable to "the occupied Palestinian territory, including east Jerusalem."

The United States did not attend this conference. However, the Mitchell Report clearly states that the settlements violate the Geneva Convention.

-Eric

[Alouette]

"the occupied Palestinian territory, including east Jerusalem."

You mean, the Western Wall and the "Jewish Quarter" of the Old City? The Jews have no right to that?

[E Rocc]

"the occupied Palestinian territory, including east Jerusalem."

You mean, the Western Wall and the "Jewish Quarter" of the Old City? The Jews have no right to that?

The settlement I would support would give the Palestinian state the Muslim quarter and the mosques on Mount Moriah/Temple Mount/Haram-al-Sharif. Israel would get the rest of Jerusalem (and would keep the Golan Heights). In particular they would get the Western Wall.

Another option might be to give the various religious shrines in the area embassy status, if they fall outside the governed area of their faith. The Christian Churches in Bethlehem could have Vatican, Greek, or Armenian status, Jewish shrines in Palestine Israeli status, and the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa would have Saudi status until the Palestinian state is in place. Those shared by two or more faiths (such as Patriarchs in Hebron) could fall under a commision including all the faiths, or a neutral faith.

And no, I haven't been reading too much Tom Clancy. >:)

-Eric

[AdA$tra]

I guess that means it time to go play coyboys and Palestinians.

[AdA$tra]

No more typing for me. That is it. I just cannot do it today.

[rmlew]

Ask the Likud-controlled government for a business license. Let me know their response.

1. The Likud has 24 seats or 20% of the Knesset. They are in coalition with the Labor Party. The right holds under 50 seats.
2. Localities also count. Most towns are run by Labor.

[rmlew]

Any strikes against US embassies? US multinational corp's? Did they have access to: ammonium nitrate, gasoline and dish soap allowed to congeal, VX nerve gas, botulism toxin, dynamite and blasting caps, machine guns, unscreened flights on turboprops?

1. The Muslims countries were backwards and lacked much of this technology.
2. The US had minimal involvement until the 1970s. The Middle East was British dominated and there were attacks on them.

.So you agree that the Palestinians are human? I don't. I think they're animals. The Israelis are human, at least. Unfortunately, they don't respect property rights. Why do you think so many Jews remain in the West rather than move to Israel so their superior numbers can overwhelm the Palestinians?

Jews remain in the west, mostly because they are contented liberals. Israel is a fairly socialist country. However, the Americans and other Jews moving there are changing that.

[droberts]

I didn't bring up Israel, it was the subject of this topic.

[swarthyguy]

Actually, India did after the 1971 War with Pakistan. Pakistan attacked on the Western Border to distract from the Bangla struggle for independence.

India's responded by encircling Lahore and extending into Pakistan in the South (Thar Desert). India withdrew after a peace agreement was signed.

But you're right. It's rare because its foolish.

[swarthyguy]

"coyboys"

Not the Catholic Scandal and the choirboys again ;)

[harrowup]

It isn't oakie doakie for Israel to still be anywhere in the West Bank. Truth shavers insist that Israel has the right in the time honored tradition of conquest...and insist that Israel was attacked in 1967 in order to take the moral high ground.

Rush Limbaugh repeated the lie again yesterday that Israel was attacked and pretty much wiped out the Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians.

In Limbaugh's case, he knows it is a lie but it wouldn't fit into his agenda for his starstruck admiration for Colin Powell.

Israel launced a pre-emptive strike (smarmy cover for...we need to be victims 'cause the Sheik kicked the sand in my face first, teacher)..

One last time folks...Israel was the aggressor and must accept 242.

[smith288]

Here is how i see it:

Kid 1 has a ball given to him by his parent. Kid 2 comes up and socks kid 1, takes the ball.... Kid 1 shakes it off, taps kid 2 on the should and proceeds to kick the living $hit out of kid 2. He takes his ball back. Every once in a while kid 2 comes back and tries to pull the ball back but kid 1 has seen this before and just kicks his a$$ again into submission.

[mark_interrupted]

Israel was granted the West Bank and Gaza when it was initally formed in 1948. The Arab Legion (under Sir John Glubb) captured the West Bank when they invaded Israel on the very day of her re-creation.

[rmlew]

Israel launced a pre-emptive strike (smarmy cover for...we need to be victims 'cause the Sheik kicked the sand in my face first, teacher)..
The only thing worse than your false statement is the comment following it.
Israel was attacked first. Egypt blockaded Israel. This is an act of war. Gaza and the West Bank were terrorist bases. The Egyptians and Syrian funded the Feyadeen.
Syria shelled Israeli towns from the Golan Hieghts.

Using your logic, Israel was an agressor because it responded to its attacker who boasting of their desire to kill all the Jews.

One last time folks...Israel was the aggressor and must accept 242.

One last time, you are lying and I'm sure you would like NATO to bomb Israel into surrender.

[rmlew]

You are an idealist. Unfortunately, the reality of the middle east is far different.

[rmlew]

Jews were a majority in Roman Occupied Judea for another 300 years. In fact, as late as 618, there was a Jewish plurailty, which joined with Samaritans to temporarily expells the Byzantines during the last Byzantine-Persian war.