U.S. investigating claims Sun layoffs favored foreign workers (H-1B visas )

AP ^ | Monday, June 24, 2002 | AP

[WakeUpChristian]

U.S. investigating claims Sun layoffs favored foreign workers

Monday, June 24, 2002

Federal authorities are investigating claims that Sun Microsystems Inc. favored U.S.-based foreign workers over American citizens during a recent round of layoffs.

The Justice and Labor departments launched their probes after a complaint filed in April by Guy Santiglia, who lost his Sun engineering job in October along with 3,900 other employees.

Santiglia, 36, said the Unix server giant favored holders of H-1B visas because those engineers may be paid less. The visa program was expanded in 2000 to help fill the ranks of workers during the high-tech boom.

Now, Santiglia and others claim, the program allows companies to hire lower-paid and more pliable workers at the expense of U.S. citizens.

The federal agencies declined to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation. Sun confirmed it has been asked for documents related to Santiglia's claims and is cooperating.

In an e-mail, Sun spokeswoman Diane Carlini said the layoffs "were driven by business needs going forward, employee skill and performance. Foreign national status was not a factor in the selection."

Santiglia, who has a degree in electrical engineering from Montana State University, said he knows of at least three other laid-off Sun employees who have similar claims.

"There's people complaining from all over Sun, from New Hampshire to Colorado, that the H-1Bs did not get laid off from their groups," he said.

The Justice Department usually investigates complaints about the H-1B visa program as it relates to a law that bars discrimination on the basis of citizenship status.

The Labor Department, however, says it has no rules about favoring U.S. citizens during layoffs.

"There's nothing that says that when they get to a point where they need to downsize that H-1Bs go first," a labor official, who asked not to be identified, told the San Jose Mercury News.

On the Net:

Sun Microsystems: www.sun.com

[Satadru]

No income is secure. In a competitive marketplace, if you cannot deliver you are out through the door unless of course you work for the govt. I find it appalling that conservatives have this socialistic fetish of forcing others to pay higher wages to its workers. It is irrational and stupid. American workers have to be competitive with the rest of the world. America is a land of opportunities and a lot of people come here for those opportunities. As long as those people are not relying on the welfare state, they can come in and earn a decent living. If American workers cannot compete, they can do something else. This is straight forward Adam Smith, that I am ashamed that most conservatives have not read.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Not me... ;0)

[ContentiousObjector]

The concept that companies are saving all sorts of money on H1-B's is laughable, we pay them just as much as their american counterparts, in addition to the expense of recuriting and bringing a person to America.

To say nothing of the additional costs associated with providing assitance to H1-B's and their families, such as offering private cultural or religious schooling for their children should they so desire.

[Satadru]

I was thinking about the possible terrorist exploitation of H1-B program myself. Then it occurred to me that anyone who has spent his own money in a third country to get an education in science and technology is least likely to be a terrorist.

[Satadru]

If it was not profitable for them, then why would they do it? All the cost is carried by the company itself, so I am pretty sure they do the cost benefit analysis before they bring these people. Unless corporations are violating major economic principles, like profit maximizing, I don't see why any company would hire migrant labor if they can get cheaper labor here.

[ContentiousObjector]

I hire H1-B's, it isn't cheap.
I am going to London and Berlin to do interviews next week.

Although the shrill Jimmy Hoffa wananbes scream it is about destroying American jobs it isn't the truth of the matter is alot of position are very difficult to find workers for in America.

If a certain profession has 100% employment, it can be very difficult to find anyone in America, or if the job is highly specific. Such as experiance with South-African equipment it can be impossible to find anyone in America

the cold hard truth is most of the hi-tech people out of work are obsolete, spoiled brat 20 yearolds with purple hair or just people with worthless paper certificates from Devry and no real experiance.

[brat]

We need to blast the WhiteHOuse about H1B visas yet again. This is such an insult to the American worker. Its bad enough our factories went overseas, but now they are importing cheap labor to take the few remaining decent wage jobs. Does anyone out there doubt that big business runs the country and not the citizens?

[brat]

"Let me guess...You have a secure income."

LOL They always change their tune when its their job!

[brat]

I find it interesting that foreign workers are qualifyed by the million, yet American workers aren't. Seeing that many come here to get their education, I find that suspect.

[ContentiousObjector]

You have to be a little more realistic,

for one thing, most are not American educated, an American degree is not a requirement for an H1-B visa, a reasonable equivelent is acceptable, another issue is alot of people seem to be under the impression H1-B's are comming from the slums of Manilia and Banglor.

The largest issue that makes H1-B's nessisary, is American schools are among the worst in the world, we have some good universities, but our primary education is almost as bad as in the the third world, in some parts of the country worse. And most private schools are not a great deal better. the way american children are educated is flawed beyond redemption.

In the Soviet Union there were so many doctors and engineers that they had engineers driving buses and doctors working in factories.

American schools have became so soft, that the kids comming out of grade 12 in America, couldn't get into high school in Japan, they would be sent to trade school. The science my daughter was doing in Jr.High when we were living in Canada was more advanced than what she is doing here in high school, we have dumbed down our science education in America so much as not to offend the flat earth society that it is worthless,

And just because some kid might survive K-12, doesn't mean university will be open to them,

because american univerisities are to busy being a tax payer and tuition funder reasearch and development department for the worlds largest and most profitable corporations, as a result a university education has become an impossible goal for much of Americas youth, and it is only getting worse.

giving guinea pigs AIDS is a higher priority of American universities than educating Americas youth.

As time goes on, the portion of the American population that is well enough educated to persue a professional career is going to shrink, further and further.

Unless America learns to educate it's children, a century from now America is going to look like a British colony in the 19th Centry with an immigrant elite and American pesants.

Until we pull our heads out of our asses and start educating American youth, we are going to need H1-B's

Letting kids play god damn dodgeball would be a good place to start!

I am pissed off right now, so the grammer and spelling police can keep it to themselves.

[captain11]

No income is secure. In a competitive marketplace, if you cannot deliver you are out through the door unless of course you work for the govt.

Often the wrong people are out the door. Some of those who are out the door take tens of millions on the way, while doing next to nothing to earn it. Enron and Qwest are examples, IMHO.

I find it appalling that conservatives have this socialistic fetish of forcing others to pay higher wages to its workers. It is irrational and stupid.

The usual arguments are that H1-B's aren't paid less, and that they're "needed" to fill otherwise unfillable positions. In some cases, H1-B's are paid at parity. It's just that they are easier to work an extra 30 hours per week because the sword of Deportation is hanging over their heads. Face facts: H1-B's are popular because they are a source of relatively cheap, compliant labor that is competent enough.

American workers have to be competitive with the rest of the world.

A tip o' the globalist cap to you. And may you sew soccer balls for a nickel less an hour (per sixteen hour day).

America is a land of opportunities and a lot of people come here for those opportunities.

Yes, they sure do. And what a lot of thick heads don't comprehend is that if sufficient numbers arrive to avail themselves of those opportunities, the opportunities per capita will diminish. This isn't 1850 or 1900 anymore. We don't need immigration to provide the core labor pool. What we ought to be doing is taking care of our own, and supplying our needs for trained labor from inside America.

As long as those people are not relying on the welfare state, they can come in and earn a decent living.

Ask yourself why they can't earn a decent living where they came from. Then ask yourself what it will be like when you are living like that, because you have to be "competitive".

If American workers cannot compete, they can do something else.

They can turn off the TV, quit spending as much of their hard-earned dough on crap, revamp a terribly broken education system, and become more civically involved so that dubious immigration policy doesn't lead them to slit their own throats. We need to work smart, not just hard, and we don't owe the rest of the world a carte blanche opportunity card.

This is straight forward Adam Smith, that I am ashamed that most conservatives have not read.

Nor understood in context, apparently. Wealth of Nations was a classic manifesto against the mercantilism of Smith's time, but far from timeless, and a great deal less timeless than the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. I mention those two great documents because Smith wasn't an American, and we didn't need him here on an H1-B to help create them.

[brat]

I do agree. We need to allow Bush's vouchers at the very least. Kids are so busy getting "sensitized" to every foul idiocy that there is no time to educate them. I remember doing four hours of homework EVERY nite...few exceptions. But then we could find our state on the map, too. Its sad.

[ContentiousObjector]

I am not sure vouchers are the answer, unless you can use it to send your kids to a country that knows how to educate their god damn kids, private schools are just as inept at preparing American children for global competition.

They just don't have kids shooting at each other between classes,

My eldest daughter doesn't know it yet, but she is going to school in Canada this September.

[HarryDunne]

wow

[EdReform]

H-1B Hall of Shame

[Vigilanteman]

Excellent supporting statistics. The Rockerfeller Republicans are just as guilty if not more so for this situation.

[fogarty]

This needs to be repeated:

"The U.S. is one of the few countries which now offers unlimited access to its job market at the expense of its own citizens."

If corporations are shafting Americans and farming all their jobs to immigrant workers, then some external force is going to have to serve to protect the citizens of this country. Government is going to need to step in and repeal all H-1B visas. It is ludicrous, in today's economy, to have ANY need for H-1B visas at all.

[FormerLurker]

the cold hard truth is most of the hi-tech people out of work are obsolete, spoiled brat 20 yearolds with purple hair or just people with worthless paper certificates from Devry and no real experiance.

If anyone should be made obsolete, it's idiots who rant as if they know everything, can't spell, and have poor grammer skills.