Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

[RCW2001]

Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

[denydenydeny]

It was more of the same platitudes. But worst of all, it tells terrorists throughout the world that the Bush Doctrine is dead.

I don't see much to disagree with

I guess we disagree. I saw a clear ultimatum and a very obvious basis for allowing Israel to act against the Palis without interference.

[Light Speed]

Good points Deb...
Too many are jumping to conclusions and disregarding the true message laid out today.
America stands for Freedom and Democracy....conforming to these tenents achieves great reward and moral support.

Bush just read the Arab world the riot act...
The Arab world better snap to on this one..
No more complaining and sulking on the periphery of the economic world.
Change..or be numbered among those who oppose Freedom and Democracy"

[section9]

First, to EV, thank you for your complement regarding my post #1030. I will remember that.

Secondly, to all of you. I am second-to-none in my ability to dish it out when I feel it necessary. However, it is my strong belief that many of the Bush Bashers are not seeing the forest for the trees when it comes to the terrain that is American Politics in the early 21st Century.

I'll get to that below, but let me say this. There is no excuse, none, for some self-proclaimed "True Conservatives" (as opposed to "False Conservatives", one would suppose) to come on here and impugn the character, honor, and commitment of this President. I have seen Bush called "Bubba2" by someone who should know better (no, not EV), and I've been in the middle of some pretty vicious intellectual firefights with fellow Freepers in the past few days. We even had one intellectual fraud come on and compare the arguments of "Republican Apologists" to those of the National Socialists.

That's the nature of what's been going on, here. I would be very disappointed if I found that the Great One had fallen into this camp. However, Mark Levin can be a rather uncompromising combatant. Next time he is on the air opposite Paul Begala, watch what happens and see if I'm not right. But let us turn to the events of the day.

Here is a man who today rolled a dadgum tenstrike, today. He took what is basically the Israeli position: he declared that Israel has a right to defend itself, and put the onus on the Palestinians and the Arab League to create a real, honest-to-God constitutional government in Palestine with an independent judiciary.

And what is the Palestinian response? The usual weasel words, of course, but not outright rejection. The Saudis have been very supportive. I suspect that they're rather happy in Amman, as well. The Israelis are attempting to contain their glee, and not doing a very good job of it, as well.

This is the mark of a President who supports the creation of a terrorist state? I think not. If Mark Levin was implying that (and I cannot claim that he was, as I have not read all his posts), then he is manifestly wrong. That is not Administration Policy. If it was, the Israelis would not be the Happy Campers that they are tonight.

Bush did a wonderful job today. Politics is the art of the Possible. So said the master of European statecraft, Otto von Bismarck. Bush was dealt a piss-poor hand, and he played it rather well. And what's more, now that he has laid it out, he can hand the thing off to Powell while Rummy gets about the business of dealing with the Thief of Baghdad.

That's what Rush never saw. And I don't think that that's what Levin sees. Bush has his objectives. He simply makes tactical adjustments to get there. This disappoints some of us on this board. But that's real politics. That's how it's done out there.

Now, back to FR.

One thing that appalls the hell out of me is that some Freepers, I know not who, criticized Jim Robinson over the weekend in rather caustic terms. There's no room for that. This is the guy who has put up with tax audits and a Clinton -sponsored lawsuit to try to shut him down. Yet he and his family persisted, and look what we have.

Free Republic is a website whose influence dwarfs that of our opposite numbers at DU, Chimpland, and Democrats.com.

We have tens of thousands of members whose influence can be felt far and wide througout this Republic.

And believe me, the liberals do fear us. And there's something else. Set aside Mark Levin for a moment. We know that we have people in the White House who are Freepers. GW is rumored to be a Freeper. God knows how many columnists are Freepers.

Folks, we matter. So don't trash Jim. We wouldn't have mattered at all if it wasn't for him.

Finally, I say to the "True Conservatives", please understand that we live in a divided electorate. Common Tator has pretty much laid it out. You can divide the electorate into thirds, with the Indies being the one's up for grabs. Winning is about seizing the political terrain necessary to reduce the choices available to our opponents. Compromise is essential to advance our agenda, to popularize our issues with the public, and to retain the Presidency and the Judicial appointments that come with it. It's what Reagan did. Indeed, like it or not, it's what Clinton did as well.

If you go to the public and insist that your way is the only way, they will reject you out of hand.

Then you will be stuck with the likes of Hillary, and all that we have achieved up to now won't matter.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Howlin]

Good gracious, HE was the one who started calling people names. I just read through the thread from where he came on, and HE started the sniping.

I'm sorry if defending Bush upsets you so much; I know you think he's not worthy and he's a sellout, but I certainly hope if MY candidate hadn't won, I would have had a little more class than to come around complaining about EVERY SINGLE THING he did. You say we think Bush can do no wrong, and when I asked you, you say he likes dogs. And please don't pull that holier than thou attitude and act like your "side" isn't giving as good as they get; I was damned to hell the night of the stem cell speech.

Would you prefer that you all come on here and say anything you want about him -- how he is a TRAITOR.....how he has sold this country down the river -- how he's worst than Clinton -- without ANYBODY contradicting you?

Your guy lost. This country is majority rule; it does NOT make us wrong because YOU don't agree with him.

I'd really like to know what you want -- do you want us to just STOP supporting the president of the United States?

Are you like DoughtyOne and wish Gore had won?

[Sandy]

Here is that "good man's" first post on this thread. he came spoiling for a fight and he got more than he could handle.

When did Bush find this "vision?" He never mentioned it during his campaign. In fact, he didn't mention it until October of 2001 - - after 9/11. I have a vision of dancing sugar plums, or whatever, but that doesn't make a serious position. Another terrorist state is not a vision, it's a terrible mistake.

Wrong. Here is his "spoiling for a fight" first post:

Whether Arafat stays or goes is quite beside the point. The Palestinians want Israel's annihilation. They're backed by repressive Arab countries, like Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya and Saudi Arabia. Egypt does their bidding as well. Bush knows full well that there's no chance the state which will border Israel will be a republic. He also knows that land for peace is a sham. It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work in the future. Land isn't the issue. These are terrorists. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hebollah, and the rest. The President's speech was not a speech of a statesman. It was more of the same platitudes. But worst of all, it tells terrorists throughout the world that the Bush Doctrine is dead. Yes, we defeated the Taliban, but since then we've been on defense. We've not taken the steps even in our own country that are necessary to ensure our own protection -- from arming pilots, closing our borders to illegal immigrants, stopping and searching all would- be airline passengers who come from terrorist states or states like Saudi Arabia, arming pilots and co-pilots, x-raying all luggage, putting armed marshalls on all flights, etc. I think the Anerican people know what needs to be done, and they're way ahead of the politically correct leadership in Washington. The President must do more, and he must not concern himself with what the media or congressional Democrats or the Europeans think or say about him. What's right is right. It's one thing for the president to compromise his entire domestic agenda, which is bad enough. But to falter in the war on terrorism is simply intolerable. There's too much at stake.

Shame on him.

[habs4ever]

My, you are precious.Since the opening line from my post has given you such vapours, you better rest and compose yourself.

I guess I better avoid condescending to you, as well.I wouldn't want you to faint.

[ClancyJ]

Bush is a president that thinks outside the box. He could have done the same old thing as has been done before - with the same old results - nothing.

You have to admit no one figured he would come up with this.

He planted a seed - the seed of a better life. It will grow or it will not - but Bush was wise enough to plant it.

Homicide bombings are the result of rule by terrorists and hate-mongering. Same as the mob instinct. The terrorists have proved they do not want peace - they lose power. Bush understands this. There will never be peace with terrorism ruling these people and inciting hatred.

He gives in to terrorists when he allows their actions to subvert the peace that is needed for the average people in the area to live decent lives.

They wanted action from Bush - they got it. But they got their marching orders if they expect help from the U.S. and any funds.

IMO he is doing the same thing to the Mid-East as he has done in Congress with the democrats. Plant the wedge in the middle of them, some might come on board, work with them and minimize the opposing factions. A state could be started with a small group and grow. Then the terrorists are no longer leading - but are outsiders and can be more easily handled. Lead, work with what you can where you can, and get as much of what you want as you can.

Its worth a try - the status quo will never work.

[PhiKapMom]

Very well stated! This bickering has got to stop so that we can start concentrating on Taking Back the Senate and Keeping the House. For any Freepers that don't think that is important, then they had just better get out of the way. I don't want to hear any crap that both parties are alike or anything else like that!

This election this Fall is for the picking of judges and Committee Chairmanships. If we don't Take Back the Senate, the conservative judicial appointments will never occur. If people cannot see that, then they know nothing about politics and choose to bury their heads in the sand.

Thanks again!

[Fred Mertz]

Republicans cannot win when it comes to Israel.

You're wrong if you think this is about politics Larry. Israel will always win.

[hchutch]

Check out post 1214. Admittedly, it's mine, but I have tried to be fair to both sides.

[Howlin]

Well, he didn't call him a little puke, did he?

[Amelia]

Hear! Hear!

GREAT post!

[oldvike]

Okay, now where does Mark Levin (if it's really him) agree with TG's sentiment?

[Texasforever]

What lie?

[Howlin]

I find that "tone" to be around this site all the time. Are you offended because it was Mark Levin?

Do you find that as offensive as calling somebody a "little puke?"

[hinckley buzzard]

As I posted months ago, this mess will be settled in the Arab Capitols, not Jerusalem or Ramallah. The Arabs are all moslem ragheads, but they are mainly self-interested sociopaths, and care less about "Palies" than their own villas in the South of France.

[Howlin]

They know that all FReepers aren't like the bullies and "our guy or noone" people that populate these threads.

Well, there we have it, don't we?

[Texasforever]

Then look at his responses following that. He drew first blood and then cried like a girl when challenged.

[PhiKapMom]

One thing that appalls the hell out of me is that some Freepers, I know not who, criticized Jim Robinson over the weekend in rather caustic terms. There's no room for that. This is the guy who has put up with tax audits and a Clinton -sponsored lawsuit to try to shut him down. Yet he and his family persisted, and look what we have.

This is what really bothered me this weekend. The people going at Jim wouldn't answer his questions either but came right back at him over and over again which I don't understand.

And I certainly do not understand the names this President has been called on here including accusing him of treason. That all sounds more like out of the DemocRAT playbook.

Thanks for your insight -- I hope it sinks into some people that need a refresher course in Politics 101!

[Howlin]

And it is ALWAYS the people who are suppose to be on OUR side. It just amazes me.

But we are just not now and never will be conservative enough for them. Never.