According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[Joe Hadenuf]

Last night during a conversation/debate between myself and the leader/owner of the Free Republic, Jim Robinson, a rather stunning revelation was brought forth. I asked Mr. Robinson, which Republicans were vocally backing, and supporting Tancredo in his fight for our sovereignty? After some delay, Jim answered, “I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.”

This is from the man that runs the most well known, and respected, political conservative internet forum in the United States? And Mr. Robinson resides in California?

Below is the exchange

Conservatives, Cut Bush Slack The Chicago Sun-Times | June 22, 2002 | Thomas Roeser

To: Jim Robinson

#939: Oh, so the Republicans are fighting for our sovereignty? Besides Tancredo, which Republicans are these Jim? If you could be specific.

#1034: Which ones are not ?

#1056: You never answered my question Jim.

Since you failed to answer my question, I will go first.

Given thirty years of this open border, immigration "free for all" that has resulted in many millions entering our nation illegally, I believe there are very few Republicans, or anyone else in DC, besides Tancredo, that are visibly and vocally fighting for our national sovereignty.

Now would you care to tell me which Republicans are standing with Tancredo and voicing outrage against this titanic, never ending invasion of illegal aliens?

1056 posted on 6/22/02 11:09 PM Pacific by Joe Hadenuf [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies | Report Abuse

To: Joe Hadenuf

I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.

1109 posted on 6/22/02 11:43 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1056 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

At first I as was stunned, angry, and felt let down. Then after some thought I wasn’t too surprised.

Looking back at all the hundreds of immigration threads where many were deleted, disappeared and sent to the cornfield, I guess I am not too surprised. However, given the gravity and danger this country faces regarding this out of control, titanic immigration issue, I am still outraged, disheartened and saddened by Mr. Robinson’s response. Thread after thread Freepers have displayed genuine outrage and honest concern regarding this issue. And the outrage and insanity regarding this issue goes far beyond the Free Republic.

It’s escalated to the point now where many of our major cities in this country, such as Chicago, have now approved the use of identification cards, issued by Mexican consulates that will give illegal aliens access to financial and public services and more, as our so-called leaders stand treasonously silent, as our sovereignty is slowly dismantled.

This massive invasion of millions of illegal aliens has changed the face of many of our once great cities, from California to Illinois, to Georgia, to Tennessee, to Texas etc etc.

They are crowding our already over crowded classrooms, voting in our elections, choking off our social services, driving down the wages, while driving up our taxes, filling our jails, standing room only in many big city emergency rooms, etc, etc, etc. I personally know of six American citizens that have become victims of illegal alien crime, from having family members slaughtered on our highways by drunk driving illegal aliens, to stabbings, robberies and common burglaries.

And just recently, another young Deputy Sheriff was shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that has again fled back to the safety of Mexico. It has now been learned that this individual has already been deported three times, each time he has returned and committed more crimes in our country, leaving American victims in his wake, and each time he fled back to the safety of Mexico.

There are many forms of terrorism, and this continued invasion of millions upon millions is one form. And it's my opinion that it’s one of the most dangerous, most threatening issues facing America today. Even today as we speak, our federal government continues to allow in almost 8000 Middle Eastern men a month on visas. It is my opinion that this legal and illegal “immigration free for all” must be, stopped, extremely limited, and reformed immediately!

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

[nanny]

Thank you, that is a very good post.

I try only to speak for myself, but my opposition is based on what I have seen and experienced and I realize from other posts that it is happening around this country and it is spreading. I was very surprised when I learned of the large numbers of these people in middle America. I just assumed they had tarried here in the Southwest.

Personally, I have sympathy for some (just some) of these people, but it just seems it would be easier, financially and otherwise, to help them in their own country. When I have to weigh my sympathy for them against my desire for a better country for my grandchildren and my desire to perserve this country, they will loose every time.

The fact is we can help them while preserving this country. The reasoning of the greedy employer is apparent, as it the reasoning of some of the politicians. But it is just beyond me why all the politicians with a small exception, are not willing to protect this country. Why we are so willing to send troops around the world to fight terrorism and to help others preserve their lives and their country and are not willing to do it for ourselves.

[Joe Hadenuf]

In other words, the do-gooders cry that they are not 'racist', and yet they sow the very seeds of horrendous race/ethnic conflict, segregation, non-assimilation, separatism, white flight, and including possible future ethnic violence on the part of those who hate Latinos (we are talking the prospect of 5-10 years down the road at the current rate), whereby whole areas of the Nation will have slowly shifted over to control as de-facto annexations by Mexico. There will be a backlash to pay, orchestrated by less than cooler heads.

Excellent post!

[Joe Hadenuf]

The latest was from the Seattle area. If these folks are packing up all their belongings, leaving their long time homes, and moving half-way across the country to escape something, I can't believe that something isn't real.

I agree. And it's as real as it gets.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Thanks for the link...

[Joe Hadenuf]

I believe that the toleration/promotion of unregulated immigration to the United States since the FDR era is one of the greatest threats this country faces.

It is.

I also believe that citizenship should not be confered upon anyone by reason of birth location unless at least one of the petitioners parents was a United States citizen at the time of the petitioners birth.

I too believe this. But nothing is being done.

[Joe Hadenuf]

So you agree with the author of the article, that Jim Robinson should stake out certain set FR viewpoints on certain issues.

Yes I agree with the author. And it's to late, as the FR already takes positions on certain issues, like rolling back decades of govenment largesse.

You don't think a variety of viewpoints, backgrounds, faiths, expertise, interests and passions is good for ideas to the solutions for problems? Have you ever noticed the makeup of think tanks? Groupthink with tunnel vision, the start and end of which is limited to the sides of a finite box, does not a viable solution make.</>

When if comes to politics, view points are fine. But that has been clouded by hundreds with special interest viewpoints, where many have now put thier special interest before our country and constitution.

Your second sentence describes the conditions under which this country has always faces crises. Those crises haven't destroyed us yet. The way human beings work is to fight among themselves until a generally approved solution begins to form.

The problem is that half the country is quietly asleep or watching soccer games, and are quite content.

That's the way it was, the way it is and the way it will always be. The ideal you describe held sway in the late Soviet Union, and they crashed.

Yes they did, and so can we.

I agree with you on the imigration disaster. Not only am I about drastically stopping illegal immigration, I'm about stopping legal immigration for a span of years to the population stabilize.

I agree.

And, like I mentioned, a generally approved solution to stop it is currently forming.

And what is that?

It may not be fast enough, because that group of likeminded individuals you mentioned started the loose immigration policies on purpose years ago and are still like minded in forcing it to its third world conclusion now.

Yes, there are usually two sides to every story. That group was wrong, as were the Soviets that you mentioned.

But, the rant is about FreeRepublic. FR is nowhere near making national policy, except that policy makers read it for the diversity of ideas.

That's speculation on your part. They may read it for laughs too. And that's speculation on my part.

It may be reasonable to speculate that if Jim were to set up set FR policies, those very folks would stop reading it.

It may also be unreasonable to think that. As many from the socialist left and policy makers, already believe, and for good reason, that the FR stands to the right of them. It's no secret.

I have never frowned upon any one or any group for standing up for what it believes, and putting it in writing.

Do you really feel that if Jim Robinson announced how he felt, or what his position was on five specific issues, that the roof would come crashing down? What is the real fear here?

Again, different views and diversity are fine to a certain extent, but unfortunatly all this diversity has been clouded by mountains of special interest, that put these interest before our country and our people.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Thank you.

But please don't leave out this (which I also wrote) which I think also needs reiteration:

"...And believe me, I have no need for the skinhead type scum that would turn violent on Latino illegal immigrants. So why even facilitate their ugly violence and aggression against others? Best to keep the population of illegal immigrants in their own nation for their own sake and welfare, not to mention, for the larger respect of the US Constitution and our sovereign laws and borders."

[Amerigomag]

But nothing is being done.

Correct but two things were done that were both effective tools to stop the type of financial rape occuring in California.

First was the "guest worker" program. It's secret was that it did not allow children into the state. Alien children are at the heart of the destruction of the infrastructure. They are pure consumers with no ability to pay taxes. Unforntunately this concept is under attack by 43 who favors "reuniting families".

Second was California's proposition 187 which denied tax supported largess to illegal aliens. Strangley the measure is not technically dead but in a sort of informal, political limbo due to a single federal judge and an a$$hole named Gray Davis. Unfortunately the 9th Circuit would have to be purged of it's liberal law makers before the measure could be sucessfully revived by a conservative governance with the will.

[Marine Inspector]

I don't agree with this general assesment that this great horde of people are streaming across the border every day. I also don't believe that the great number of them are illegal!

500,000,000 people enter the United States each year. This included the US citizens that return from trips abroad. That’s 1,369,863 people a day crossing the border. That’s a pretty big hoard.

In the 9 months since September 11th, the INS has apprehended 834,442 illegal aliens.

81% (675,999) of those crossed the border illegally.

Of that number, over 97% (661,605) crossed from Mexico.

19 or 20 illegals apprehended are Mexican.

Yes illegals come in from the air and land and sea. But if the dam has several holes in it, do you plug the small holes first or do you plug the big hole (the Mexican border)?

[William Terrell]

. . .FR already takes positions on certain issues, like rolling back decades of govenment largesse.

I believe it's general corruption in government, which includes immigration in addition to a hundred other issues.

When if comes to politics, view points are fine. But that has been clouded by hundreds with special interest viewpoints, where many have now put thier special interest before our country and constitution.

That's correct. And these represent groups, not individuals. The defacto leaders of the special interest groups make the choices, not the individual members of the group. People are easier to handle in groups when only the leader has to be dealt with. That's a strength, and a weakness. It started off the former (representative government) and turned into the latter (ethnic groups, teachers unions, gender, race, political parties).

The problem is that half the country is quietly asleep or watching soccer games, and are quite content.

The solution is to alter the electromagnetic spectrum so that frequencies that carry television signals are not available, or smash every TV set in the country. I prefer smash. But, then, I'm just a lone voice in the wilderness.

And what is that?

Guard the borders. Next will come round 'em up. I can agree with you that it may be too little too late, but this is not a natural disaster. It's been planned, executed, kept off the radar screen, financed and fought for many years by people that knew the result and the consequences, knew it was not what people would choose for themselves, knew it was against the interests of our constitutional form of government and in favor of the interests of their policies and power. Great political masses just don't move that fast under a complex constitutional government. Military rule or a dictatorship move much faster, but the downsides are prohibitive.

Do you really feel that if Jim Robinson announced how he felt, or what his position was on five specific issues, that the roof would come crashing down? What is the real fear here?

If Jim did that, and made these positions the official policy of FR as a forum, hostile media would have specific targets, not general, with some fringe examples of some postings like they have now. If these positions were the official policy many fine posters would cause banable trouble or leave the forum. Yes, several things can come crashing down, and I believe marginlization would be on the horizon.

No fear. I just like it a bit chaotic, so I argue in favor of that, giving my reasons.

[B.R. Burton]

Immigration isn't a big concern of mine either, and I'm a staunch conservative, and live in TEXAS. Some people focus on different issues, it is ridiculous for you to assume that JimRob, and every conservative must be equally zealous on all issues. That's not human.

[4Freedom]

"Immigration isn't a big concern of mine either, and I'm a staunch conservative, and live in TEXAS."

SO WHAT? You're not Jim Robinson and Jim Robinson isn't just any other conservative, in the opinions of many on this forum.

I, for one, was very surprised that Jim Robinson, being as concerned about defeating the "liberals/socialists" at the ballot box as he is, isn't particularly concerned with another 1.6 to 3.6 million additional, new, potential, "liberals/socialists", illegal alien voters crossing our borders, since 9/11.

It seems an apparent contradiction, to some of us.

Marine Inspector has made us aware that nothing has changed, in respect to our border security, since 9/11 and has been providing numbers to support his claim all along.

It surprised me that it appeared that JR had seen MI's numbers for the first time on this thread.

If Joe's thread accomplished nothing else, that, alone, was worth it.

Another thing that surprised me is that JR lays our illegal alien problem, almost solely, at the feet of the Democrats.

It's George Bush and Karl Rove that are pushing an extension of section 245i harder than all the Democrats combined. Bush has pulled out all the stops, called in all his favors and used every dirty, political 'trick-in-the-book', to try and sneak this section 245i extension through, behind the backs of a majority of American CITIZENS that oppose it.

George Bush's support for this 245i extension, of what amounts to an amnesty, is responsible for this avalanche of illegal, unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking, "liberals/socialists" humanity since 9/11.

We have Democrat Senator, Robert Byrd, of all people, to thank for stopping 245i the last time.

Who would have believed something like that when we were voting for Bush back in 11/2000?

That, 9 months after 9/11, innocent American citizens can still be killed in a terrible, senseless car accident, with a van load of illegal aliens on our side of the border, is unconscionable.

Six Killed in Van Crash; 33 Illegal Immigrants Were on Board

The families of these illegal aliens will undoubtedly sue the taxpayers of the United States for damages, thanks to Bush.

The families of the innocent American citizens that died in this accident should sue George Bush. After 9 months of total inaction, in respect to our border security, their blood is on his hands.

[Joe Hadenuf]

If Jim did that, and made these positions the official policy of FR as a forum, hostile media would have specific targets, not general, with some fringe examples of some postings like they have now.

Specific, general, what's the difference? The media already knows this site is to the right of them.

Remember, standing up for what you believe in, can sometimes be hazardous or dangerous. It's takes some degree of guts and fortitude to stick to your guns and say what you believe.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Immigration isn't a big concern of mine either, and I'm a staunch conservative, and live in TEXAS.

What? Do you hire illegal aliens? I find this an incredible position, given your geographical location. I could show you some posts from some of your Texas neighbors, that have a whole different outlook than you. Night and day. But I wont get into that.

Living in Texas and not having a concern about immigration, is like a Jew in Israel not having concerns about it's borders.

And I'm not suggesting that they are blowing us up. There are many forms of terrorism, and if you like, I will be more than happy to list them all for you.

[hchutch]

I think Nick Danger has hit the nail on the head.

I believe we ought to reform immigration laws in the following fashion:

1. The would-be immigrant should have a job lined up or should be planning on starting a business here.
2. They must agree to NOT go on welfare.
3. They must keep out of trouble.
4. They must not have any criminal record at all, and pass a background check.
5. They must learn English.
6. They must learn how our government operates, particularly the founding documents. I nominate Bailint Vazsonyi to develop the course on that.

NO limit on those who can come in.

Of course, I'll probably get called a heretic and a RINO for this, but I don't care. I think this policy, if combined with a fully revamped Border Patrol and INS, will keep the welfare sponges and criminals out, and we'd be able to get the type of immigrants who MADE this country great.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Six Killed in Van Crash; 33 Illegal Immigrants Were on Board

The families of these illegal aliens will undoubtedly sue the taxpayers of the United States for damages, thanks to Bush.

The families of the innocent American citizens that died in this accident should sue George Bush. After 9 months of total inaction, in respect to our border security, their blood is on his hands.

I tend to agree. As with the family of the young Deputy Sheriff that was recently shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that had already been deported 3 times after committing more crimes against American citizens, and each time has fled back to the safety of Mexico, only to return and leave more American victims in his path.

[hchutch]

"We have Democrat Senator, Robert Byrd, of all people, to thank for stopping 245i the last time."

And how does it help our cause or overall agenda to be seen as allying with a former KKK recruiter?

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo rum/a3a5b6cd23439.htm

[4Freedom]

The administration is giving these illegal aliens, sneaking over the border, a pass, because they're only killing one or two of us at a time instead of 3,000 all at once.

[4Freedom]

"No limit on those that can come in."

How about heretic, RINO and raving lunatic? LOL!

You and Nick Danger are both wrong.

If we do need anymore immigrants, there's absolutely no reason to accept any uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking, disease ridden immigrants when there are millions of educated, skilled, healthy, English speakers that have legally applied to enter the USA.

We should choose the immigrants we allow in from among them.

[4Freedom]

We didn't ally with Senator Byrd, he allied with us.

At least someone's pandering to the conservative right on illegal immigration.

How does it look that Senator Byrd knows that it's not right to let millions of illegal aliens leap-frog over legal applicants and George Bush doesn't?