According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[Joe Hadenuf]

Last night during a conversation/debate between myself and the leader/owner of the Free Republic, Jim Robinson, a rather stunning revelation was brought forth. I asked Mr. Robinson, which Republicans were vocally backing, and supporting Tancredo in his fight for our sovereignty? After some delay, Jim answered, “I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.”

This is from the man that runs the most well known, and respected, political conservative internet forum in the United States? And Mr. Robinson resides in California?

Below is the exchange

Conservatives, Cut Bush Slack The Chicago Sun-Times | June 22, 2002 | Thomas Roeser

To: Jim Robinson

#939: Oh, so the Republicans are fighting for our sovereignty? Besides Tancredo, which Republicans are these Jim? If you could be specific.

#1034: Which ones are not ?

#1056: You never answered my question Jim.

Since you failed to answer my question, I will go first.

Given thirty years of this open border, immigration "free for all" that has resulted in many millions entering our nation illegally, I believe there are very few Republicans, or anyone else in DC, besides Tancredo, that are visibly and vocally fighting for our national sovereignty.

Now would you care to tell me which Republicans are standing with Tancredo and voicing outrage against this titanic, never ending invasion of illegal aliens?

1056 posted on 6/22/02 11:09 PM Pacific by Joe Hadenuf [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies | Report Abuse

To: Joe Hadenuf

I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.

1109 posted on 6/22/02 11:43 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1056 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

At first I as was stunned, angry, and felt let down. Then after some thought I wasn’t too surprised.

Looking back at all the hundreds of immigration threads where many were deleted, disappeared and sent to the cornfield, I guess I am not too surprised. However, given the gravity and danger this country faces regarding this out of control, titanic immigration issue, I am still outraged, disheartened and saddened by Mr. Robinson’s response. Thread after thread Freepers have displayed genuine outrage and honest concern regarding this issue. And the outrage and insanity regarding this issue goes far beyond the Free Republic.

It’s escalated to the point now where many of our major cities in this country, such as Chicago, have now approved the use of identification cards, issued by Mexican consulates that will give illegal aliens access to financial and public services and more, as our so-called leaders stand treasonously silent, as our sovereignty is slowly dismantled.

This massive invasion of millions of illegal aliens has changed the face of many of our once great cities, from California to Illinois, to Georgia, to Tennessee, to Texas etc etc.

They are crowding our already over crowded classrooms, voting in our elections, choking off our social services, driving down the wages, while driving up our taxes, filling our jails, standing room only in many big city emergency rooms, etc, etc, etc. I personally know of six American citizens that have become victims of illegal alien crime, from having family members slaughtered on our highways by drunk driving illegal aliens, to stabbings, robberies and common burglaries.

And just recently, another young Deputy Sheriff was shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that has again fled back to the safety of Mexico. It has now been learned that this individual has already been deported three times, each time he has returned and committed more crimes in our country, leaving American victims in his wake, and each time he fled back to the safety of Mexico.

There are many forms of terrorism, and this continued invasion of millions upon millions is one form. And it's my opinion that it’s one of the most dangerous, most threatening issues facing America today. Even today as we speak, our federal government continues to allow in almost 8000 Middle Eastern men a month on visas. It is my opinion that this legal and illegal “immigration free for all” must be, stopped, extremely limited, and reformed immediately!

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

[Twodees]

For this upcoming election cycle, what's more important than who we choose to vote for is volunteering to watch the polling places and the vote count. The democrats only win by fraud. That the media presents them as a hugely popular, equally supported ideology to conservatism doesn't make it true. They're really without significant support outside the cities.

Recent electoral history shows that more people will vote for conservatives running on conservative principles than will vote for marxists who call themselves "liberals" or democrats. That's what makes me believe that the actual numbers of liberal voters are much smaller than the media and the fraudulently produced vote totals tell us. Gore got a huge number of illegal votes and democrat controlled precincts manufactured an even larger number of votes for him. That was very apparent in 2000.

Denying the crooks any cover for their fraud is important. Getting rid of illegal invaders will go a long way toward depriving the opposition of votes from ineligible voters. Before that can be done, watching the ballots and the polling places is essential.

For whatever reason, the GOP is unwilling to confront vote fraud by the opposition. We need to do it for ourselves, since they won't take an official stance.

[Joe Hadenuf]

our diversity is our strength.

Diversity? I see no strength in a group of "conservative" people with a varity of different opinions or views on a specific issue.

I have always believed that like minded individuals get things done. While the diverse crowd are all giving their different views and opinions, the crises destroys them and their country. I don't buy into the diversity thing.

Things are pretty clear to me. End this titanic immigration disaster before it destorys us. Cut this huge government in half, or more, and restore our constitution, and all of our freedoms.

While a diverse crowd will continue it's never ending arguement and debate, while big government and the illegal alien invasion would actually encourage the diverse crowd to continue their never ending debate of ideals.

America was not made great from diversity. It was made great by like minded people with the same beliefs.

Just my opinion....

[maxwell]

The DNP and GOP are in cahoots with each other and they are playing us for fools.

Yeah and I got this ocean-front property in Arizona I wanna sell ya...

[maxwell]

End this titanic immigration disaster before it destorys us.

I've been glancing hither and thither over this thread and lemme get this straight, Joe-- would your solution to this "immigration problem" be, to tighten border security and generally get all hard-assical about it?

I agree it's a problem. It ain't one I stay awake at nights over, that's only when I drink too much port again. I might stay awake nights if I owned property in south-west Texas or something, but...

My feeling on this is, I think Bush was on the right track pre-911 when he and whatshisname, Fox, were discussing mass citizenship-bestowing and whatnot. My three main issues with illegal immigrants are, (1) terrorism and anti-nationality (including NOT learning the language, delinquency and being an asspain, etc.), (2) NOT paying taxes like the rest of us god-fearing Americans, and (3) getting benefits (health, education, etc.) on the American taxpayers' dollar. If those are resolved, then I have no issues; c'mon in and make yerselves at home!

[Joe Hadenuf]

I've been glancing hither and thither over this thread and lemme get this straight, Joe-- would your solution to this "immigration problem" be, to tighten border security and generally get all hard-assical about it?

Yes.

[bam]

While I believe that the experiences you relate are real and true and therefore must factor into the immigration dilemma and be a part of whatever conclusion and attitudes we arrive at as individuals and as a nation, those experiences are just that -- i.e. part of the whole equation rather than proof of overall final outcome. Just as I assume that someone who had a bad experience would be admonished for generalizing that experience into "all immigrants are bad", it is equally faulty logic to generalize a good experience into something like "anybody who objects to immigration is just spewing hatred and don't know what they are talking about". I'm not saying that you did or said this, but I have seen this in other poster's comments. You did say that "OK...we are NOT losing our Country", but from numerous and various sources (newspapers articles, posters here and elsewhere, talk radio, first hand face to face accounts), there is sufficient evidence, for me anyway, to have concern that we are losing at least large neighborhoods, communities, and effective schools due to the effects of illegal immigration -- if not the entire country or large parts thereof. I guess my point is that the experiences of those who relate the negatives of (illegal) immigration are, in general, as real and valid as those who express the positive and that the question that needs to be addressed is what are the current and long term effects and consequences of immigration, specifically illegal immigration as is being discussed here.

While I don't live in an area that so far has seen a great influx of illegal immigrants (but, I believe Joe when he says its coming to neighborhood near you), every few weeks I come across somebody who says they moved to the area to escape deteriorating neighborhood conditions in their hometown, usually due to illegal immigration, usually mentioning gang activity and usually, but not always, referring to them as Mexican gangs. The latest was from the Seattle area. If these folks are packing up all their belongings, leaving their long time homes, and moving half-way across the country to escape something, I can't believe that something isn't real. I've often wondered why we aren't expected to have compassion and concern for our own citizens being driven from their homes, but are presumably mean-spirited not to have compassion for those driving them out. And actually, I'm getting a little tired of seeing the grass and farmland paved over to make room for them (and I don't know where the water is supposed to come from), -- which is a secondary effect of illegal/legal immigration that is not often considered.

BTW, I do empathize with you and the individuals mentioned in your account, but obviously the problem is that such actions send the message that ignoring the law and jumping ahead of your place in line is okay and just invites more of it from the bad as well as the not so bad -- and maybe those lawfully waiting in line are equally or even more deserving and we just can't take everbody. As they say, the road ... is paved with good intentions.

[AmericanInTokyo]

The real 'racists' here, are the open border advocates for no control on the borders who believe in a big tent and really think they are doing a humanitarian good deed.

Yet, they facilitate nothing of the sort!

They altruistically say 'come on in, the water's fine. Your diversity is your strength, borders are meaningless, you epitomize the American dream, ' Etc Etc blah blah, barf barf.

What they don't realize is that because they invite a long-term, uncontrolled situation, it demographically compounds into a whole situation of territorial expansion, uncomfortable proximities and racial friction such as we see internationally with the North African/Arabic influx in France or Holland, Turk influx in Germany, the treatment of Albanians in Serb areas, etc., and what the immigrants or minorities have to endure there.

In other words, the do-gooders cry that they are not 'racist', and yet they sow the very seeds of horrendous race/ethnic conflict, segregation, non-assimilation, separatism, white flight, and including possible future ethnic violence on the part of those who hate Latinos (we are talking the prospect of 5-10 years down the road at the current rate), whereby whole areas of the Nation will have slowly shifted over to control as de-facto annexations by Mexico. There will be a backlash to pay, orchestrated by less than cooler heads.

The Open Border Crusaders will smuggly walk away from the whole thing they have created, washing their hands of the fallout implications, as if they had no role in promoting the contentiousness and rivalry, and yes, possible ethnic violence on the score perhaps we witnessed in the Fmr. Yugoslavia.

Gee, thanks, bleeding heart liberals and moderate, compassionate conservative RINOs who failed to see the caustic situation they are/were inviting. And believe me, I have no need for the skinhead type scum that would turn violent on Latino illegal immigrants. So why even facilitate their ugly violence and aggression against others? Best to keep the population of illegal immigrants in their own nation for their own sake and welfare, not to mention, for the larger respect of the US Constitution and our sovereign laws and borders.

[FITZ]

You describe a few illegals who came to work, and I know some myself who come to work, some don't even want to stay but wish to save their ranches and family in Mexico and return to the country they still love ---but you can take a drive through the projects here or the county hospitals and find plenty who are not here to work at all ---I know immigrants who never worked a day in their life in the US but are happy to exist on welfare. The other problem is the dropping wages in areas of extremely high immigration ---it's not easy for American families when less than 1 out of 3 wage earners is able to make more than $10 an hour because immigrants will work for $4 an hour without benefits.

[FITZ]

In other words, the do-gooders cry that they are not 'racist'

They are racist because they wish to ignore certain crimes committed like presenting false or stolen documents which they would not support fair-skinned people committing. I'm not for dragging farm workers off fields to deport them but I think it's time the government clean up the duplicate and fake Social Security numbers being used and fully prosecute those felons involved, deport them and bar them from reentry to this country. We don't need criminals.

[summer]

Re your post #420 - Also, there's the thread on immigration that I started this month, with more than 250 posts on it:

ALIEN STORES ["unbelievable but true immigration stories"]

[summer]

See post #530.

[summer]

Correction on the title of thread in post #530 above:

ALIEN STORIES...

[maxwell]

Hey I think the title of this thread changed...

[illstillbe]

There is not a single thing which you have said which can be honestly denied.

There's the problem ... our own experiences ... notwithstanding ... ( can you believe that is all one word?!) ... my skirting the rules ... which I now regret ... I think ... color our perspective in a unique way.

I truly do not know what the solution is ... how it will finally arrive ... but I thank you for your thoughtful replies.

[FITZ]

What I would like to see is a revamping of our immigration system. For example I known a man who really intends to work here for a time and return to his own land --which he is trying to save from financial ruin because of the economic disaster the Mexican government causes for it's people. His children and family remain in Mexico, they intend to stay Mexican in culture and citizenship and he and his type are the harder working farm-workers who demand little from the US and never intend to get on welfare. A trip to the county hospital here will also show another type of immigrant ---often single mothers who intend to immediately apply for welfare by having a US born baby, sometimes these babies are conceived only for that purpose and to enable a family the "right" to stay in the US.

I think a guest worker program could help a certain type of person who is forced now to enter illegally but we should also end the practice of anchor babies and welfare and food stamps to foreigners who are unable to make it on their own here --often because they have little desire to learn the language or complete their education. It's too bad we've got so much socialism now because it does attract a type that we don't need here.

[illstillbe]

I once again agree .. the socialistic way in which we "support" these people drives me nuts ... though I have not seen a lot of it here.

Interesting, I've had conversations with Louis ... and he informs me that there are two types of immigrants. The theory being ... those who travel furthest away from the border ... I am in Maryland, for example ... invest more effort in assimilating into out society ... both emotionally and otherwise... They've no intention of ever living in Mexico again ... and do not use the system like those who can merely skip on back when the mood suits them

Another example of personal experiences, FITZ.

I honestly believe I have met a different kind of immigrant than those you have.

Adding weight to Louis' theory ... my husband works in a hospital out here ... and it is not illegals who are sucking up Federal funds.

Makes the whole picture more confusing ... though strict laws which are enforced would certainly uncomplicate things.

Har! Listen to me ...

I like your guest worker concept ... for it's an honorable trait to care about your country ... and want to return to bring better times ...

[Amerigomag]

I believe that the toleration/promotion of unregulated immigration to the United States since the FDR era is one of the greatest threats this country faces.

I also believe that citizenship should not be confered upon anyone by reason of birth location unless at least one of the petitioners parents was a United States citizen at the time of the petitioners birth.

[William Terrell]

So you agree with the author of the article, that Jim Robinson should stake out certain set FR viewpoints on certain issues.

Diversity? I see no strength in a group of "conservative" people with a varity of different opinions or views on a specific issue.

You don't think a variety of viewpoints, backgrounds, faiths, expertise, interests and passions is good for ideas to the solutions for problems? Have you ever noticed the makeup of think tanks? Groupthink with tunnel vision, the start and end of which is limited to the sides of a finite box, does not a viable solution make.

I have always believed that like minded individuals get things done. While the diverse crowd are all giving their different views and opinions, the crises destroys them and their country. I don't buy into the diversity thing.

Your second sentence describes the conditions under which this country has always faces crises. Those crises haven't destroyed us yet. The way human beings work is to fight among themselves until a generally approved solution begins to form. That's the way it was, the way it is and the way it will always be. The ideal you describe held sway in the late Soviet Union, and they crashed.

I agree with you on the imigration disaster. Not only am I about drastically stopping illegal immigration, I'm about stopping legal immigration for a span of years to the population stabilize.

And, like I mentioned, a generally approved solution to stop it is currently forming. It may not be fast enough, because that group of likeminded individuals you mentioned started the loose immigration policies on purpose years ago and are still like minded in forcing it to its third world conclusion now.

But, the rant is about FreeRepublic. FR is nowhere near making national policy, except that policy makers read it for the diversity of ideas. It may be reasonable to speculate that if Jim were to set up set FR policies, those very folks would stop reading it.

[nanny]

You have no problem IF - they begin to take financial responsibility for themselves, pay taxes like everyone else, obey the laws like everyone else. I still don't think this country cannot assimilate that many people at one time - however: Some people seem to think that bestowing citizenship on them will suddenly make them become taxpaying, law abiding, responsible people. How so? That sounds like making the airport screeners federal workers makes them do their jobs better. Neither premise makes sense.

We are probably (almost certainly) going to have a few million new citizens as soon as the mid-term elections, so probably there is nothing we can do about it. But - I would suggest proponents of the idea and politicians look at the statistics of other 'made citizens' of the past and see just how tax-paying, law abiding, and financially responsible they became. I think you would find very little difference in the statistics of these 'citizens' and the ones 'soon-to-be-citizens'. Why else would President Bush think he needs to spend so much of our tax dollars getting them homes. If, in fact, they are such hardworking, necessary employees capable of becoming productive, contributing citizens, why would he need to see they are 'helped' into 'private' home ownership. Doesn't make sense, either.

[nanny]

Sorry, not to be atagonist but, if you owned property in Texas (unless you were a politician, hispanic, government employee, or greedy employer, you would definitely see it in a very different light.