THE BIBLE AND THE APOCALYPSE: The biggest book of the summer is about the end of the world.

Time ^ | June 23, 2002 | Nancy Gibbs

[Prince Caspian]

On the surface these would seem contradictory statements.

What I mean is that none of us will be whisked away prematurely. We will all witness His return as earthly citizens.

What did you actually mean by 'counterfeit'? What is your 'label' for the event of 1 Thes 4:15-17?

This passage describes Christ's return for the righteous dead and living. He comes "with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God..." Another passage describes the event as "lightening that cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west..." "Every eye shall see him" seems to preclude a "secret" rapture.

[Starwind]

Jesus is not the Lord to be worshipped, but more of a 12-step program sort of guy

As is often the case, there is a partial truth here.

Jesus did come to save the lost, and petty criminals, addicts, whores, etc, certainly qualify and are found in greater numbers in inner cities. If their hearts are sincerely seeking the Lord (as people do when they bottom out), Christ will meet each of them individually exactly where they are. Assuming then they were sincere, the Holy Spirit regenerates and gradually sanctifies them, and at some point sooner rather than later, you'll find them clean and sober with new lives, worshipping and testifying to Christ.

However, there are many who are insincere and treat Jesus like a last minute fire-escape. God knows the difference.

God looks to the heart for sincere belief and faith.

As for "mystical incantations", some of that may be due to an effort to apply what the Bible teaches as it is taught without deviating - which outwardly can appear as an incantation, such as reciting passages at funerals, weddings, anointings, etc.

But the Bible can not and should not be reduced to a totemic. All power and authority comes from God, not a printed book.

[Prince Caspian]

Please see my response #81.

For all you non-believers in the Rapture, either you believe the Bible is the Inspired Holy Word of God or you don't. You can't pick and choose which part you believe and which part you don't.

We are in perfect agreement. But for me to believe in the existence of the Rapture would require that I violate your instructions about picking and choosing.

No Christian should be concerned with date setting for dates do not matter, all that matters is that we who follow Christ are ready for His Glorious appearing.

Agreed. We should not be "overly" concerned.

As for me and my house, we believe in the Rapture, whenever it happens, and we will serve Christ forever.

Amen, brother. Stay faithful to the light which God reveals to you, and you will not be disappointed.

[american spirit]

Has anyone or organization considered that perhaps the end
time scenario is being orchestrated by those interested in
seeing Christianity destroyed? Isn't is possible that those
who control political and media events have the power to instigate and manipulate events that is dutifully reported by useful mainstream media idiots? Look at what these dolts
refer to as newsworthy these days? I know many Christian
groups want to desperately believe we're in the end times so
that they don't have to think or work very hard to combat the evil that pervades our educational and political arena.
Too many have the mindset of "well it's inevitable so why fight it" so they do absolutely nothing to the detriment of
America's future generations. These 501-C3 pastors just disgust me to no end.

[rdb3]

I most certainly agree that unscrupulous people speak in the Name of the LORD. In fact, I'd go so far as to say some deliberately make up ridiculous end-times scenarios as a means to keep others from confessing faith in Christ.

But the day and time no man knows. Christ gave us clues as to the season, but that's it. Only the Father knows when, and I for one am content on just waiting for that day to come on its own time.

God doesn't need my help. ;-)

[Starwind]

some deliberately make up ridiculous end-times scenarios as a means to keep others from confessing faith in Christ.

Hmmmm...hadn't thought of that angle before...it's worth watching.

[rdb3]

Makes me go hmmmmmm.....

Indeed. It still surprises me that you have those who will hurl insults at people of faith on a conservative site of all places.

Oh, well.

By the way, we know what entity this is; the prince of the power of the air.

[rdb3]

I guess you can call that my off-the-beaten path way of thinking. I don't focus on the who or what or how. I focus on the "why." Asking "why?" brings things into focus, IMHO.

[berned]

The twisting of The Revelation of John, into a book of prophecy aimed at us, is at the heart of this misunderstanding. Simply reading ch.1,ver.4 should enlighten most. Proper dating of when Revelation was written, correlated to History, is also key in it's interpretation. Most who can't understand, have problems following it as prophecy, or reconciling it with the other Scriptures, when asked to reread it from a historical perspective have no trouble understanding that it was a warning to the seven Churches of Asia with respect to the rise of Nero Ceasar and his coming persecutions of the Church

Oh really?? Let's analyze this calmly.

In Matthew 24, Jesus is talking to His discpiles:

3Later, Jesus sat on the slopes of the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and asked, "When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?"

END OF THE WORLD. Jesus tells them about "wars & rumors of wars", etc, and then He says THIS...

12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold.13But those who endure to the end will be saved.14And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then, finally, the end will come.

Are you saying that then entire world knew of Christianity in the time of Nero????? But it gets better, Jesus then describes what will happen after the abomination of desolations...

16"Then those IN JUDEA must flee to the hills.

IN JUDEA. That's ISRAEL. Israel will be around at the end of the world. Just like Revelation prophesies it will. Let's continue...

17 A person outside the house must not go inside to pack.18 A person in the field must not return even to get a coat.19 How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for mothers nursing their babies in those days.20 And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath.21For that will be a time of greater horror than anything the world has ever seen or will ever see again. 22In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, the entire human race will be destroyed. But it will be shortened for the sake of God's chosen ones.

Is it your contention that THAT happened in the times of Nero? Are you saying that during the time of Nero, one-third of humanity was killed (like it prophesies in Revelation)? That there was an army to the east of Israel comprised of 200 MILLION (like it prophesies in Revelation)? That there was an earthquake that destroyed one-tenth of Jerusalem and killed 7000 people (like it prophesies in Revelation)? That one-third of all the worlds trees were destroyed and one-third of the oceans were ruined (like it prophesies in Revelation)? All happened in the time of Nero?

[Mortimer Snavely]

I'm talking about how a lot of people imagine that uttering Bible verses is somehow invoking supernatural power. I'm all for reciting Bible verses at funerals and weddings and the like and using them as a base for further reflection and extrapolation on ethical and metaphysical issues; what is disturbing is how the recitation of Bible verses is used as a substitute for thinking.

Some consider this as "thinking God's thoughts," but actually it is evidence of thought reform and not a little brain washing. When humans desire to and are instructed to become little more than animated tape players and sanctified automatons, the potential for manipulation and exploitation is at a very dangerous level.

[RaceBannon]

There is a lot of basics about prophecy that I have posted here, but certainly not in the manner you spoke of in your comments about Christians. Nor would I recommend the LEFT BEHIND series, either, I think you just need to read your Bible and trust what God said.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/600296/posts

[billbears]

I can see your point and I know it has happened historically quite a bit. However, when it comes to books that are so popular, a Christian can use this as a jumping off point for discussion of faith. Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with everything that is in the Left Behind series, but it has given me an opportunity to those that aren't Christian that might be reading the book out of curiousity to witness to them

[THEUPMAN]

A collection of Numbers of the Beast


666 Number of the beast
668 Neighbor of the beast
660 Approximate Number of the Beast
DCLXVI Roman Numeral of the Beast
666.0000 Number of the High Precision Beast
0.666 Number of the Millibeast
1/666 Common Denominator of the Beast
666[-/(-1)] Imaginary number of the Beast
1010011010 Binary Number of the Beast
29A Hexidecimal Number of the Beast
-666 Negative Number of the Beast
00666 Zip code of the Beast
$665.95 Retail Price of the Beast
$699.25 Price of the Beast Plus 5% State Sales Tax
$769.95 Price of the Beast with all Accessories and Replacements
$656.66 Wal-Mart Price of the Beast
$646.66 Next week's Wal-Mart Price of the Beast
$333.00 After Christmas sale Price of the Beast
$222.00 Going Out Business Liquidation Price of the Beast
Phillips 666 Gasoline of the Beast
Route 666 Way of the Beast
665 Older Brother of the Beast
667 Younger Brother of the Beast
6-6-6 Fertilizer of the Beast
666 UP Soft Drink of the Beast
666lb cap Weight Limit of the Beast
666 F Oven Temperature for Cooking Roast "Beast"
666k Retirement Plan of the Beast
666 mg Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
6.66% 5 Year CD Rate at First Beast of Hell, $666 Minimum Deposit
1-800-666-6666 Toll Free Number of the Beast
Lotus 6-6-6 Spreadsheet of the Beast
Word 6.66 Word Processor of the Beast
6"X 6"X 6" Lumber of the Beast
i66686 CPU of the Beast
666i BMW of the Beast
666-66-6666 Social Security Number of the Beast
6/6/66 Birth Date of the Beast
666.AC.com URL of the Beast
IAM 666 License Plate Number of the Beast
Formula 666 All Purpose Cleaner of the Beast
WD-666 Spray Lubricant of the Beast
66.6 MHz FM Radio Station of the Beast
666 KHz AM Radio Station of the Beast
Chanel No. 666 The Beast's Favorite Perfume
666% What the Beast Gives in His Game
Colt 666 Revolver or Beer of the Beast

[guitfiddlist]

Speaking of numbers:

"Three is the number thou shalt count...and the number that thou shalt count is three. Two shall thou NOT count, excepting that thou shalt proceedeth to three. Four is right out, seeing as the number thou shalt reach is three."

- From instructions for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch

[foreverfree]

bump

[Zack Nguyen]

Well, I most certainly have a problem with looking upon Jesus Christ as anything other than what he is: "King of Kings and Lord of Lords", as the Scriptures say.

Often well-intentioned people regard Christ as a security blanket, or something warm and fuzzy to "experience" once a week. While Christ certainly is our security, and worship is essential, He is much greater than all these things.

[Zack Nguyen]

Excellent response. Well put.

[Spyder]

You sure it isn't "19?" Oh, sorry, that was Farakhan (sp?) Thanks for the laugh.

[Paulus Invictus]

John, you are the man! I have been amazed and chagrined at the number of people that actually believe the highly fanciful, extraordinary speculations of the "Left Behind" books. The real truth of the books is that the authors are now very wealthy and will continue to turn out end times trash as long as there are gullible buyers.

According to the Bible itself, no one knows or could know if the end is near or when it will occur. The Left Behinders are leading the innocent to believe that it is upon us. Since Christ's time, hundreds of predictions like this have never been shown to be right--they were all wrong- and these religious scammers are wrong as well.

[Paulus Invictus]

Gosh! Can I wait until the price goes down a bit more?