The hideous physics of the 'suicide state'

Washington Times ^ | 6/21/02 | Wesley Pruden

[mathurine]

I think some of these airborne water tankers they use to fight forest fires should be obtained and used with appropriate chaplain support to fly about baptizing all these Palestinian mohammedans; might improve their attitudes.

[tet68]

Peace or Land. I like it. The leaving of pockets of Palestinains is not feasible,expell them all, eliminate the west bank and Gaza as enclaves, swear allegience to the state of Isreal and live in peace or get out.
Works for me.

[InkStone]

Perhaps the French government ought to be on the lookout for such proposals coming from the US. A more interesting proposal, since the US wants the Palestinians so much, would be for a Palestinian homeland to be created in a state such as Texas,

Tralfez, NEVER NEVER forget that “The Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave,” from Texas, and Oregon, Mississippi and Arizona and Connecticut, and every state and city, that sent their best to the beaches of Normandy...those young AMERICAN men, ripped to shreds, blinded, permanently paralyzed, those are the young men who saved Europe, and who saved France. At least we have not forgotten, as some have...

Tralfez, you must understand this: if you believe CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC represents us, WE, THE PEOPLE, you are wrong. The heads of our major media outlets are in league with our enemies and should be hanged for treason. Only a tiny minority of Americans support the Palestinians. Let them follow their leader, the child raping and murdering Pedophile Mohammed to desolation. Israel will prevail. We must stand by Israel. WE WILL STAND BY ISRAEL. And where will France stand Tralfez? Are you with us? Remember 1944... someone owes a debt, that if they have any honor at all, must repay.

[tet68]

So you believe in collective punishment for individual crimes?

You haven't been in the Armed Forces, have you?

Any way, it seems that the Palestinians believe in individual punishment for Collective crimes.

[Toddsterpatriot]

scrofulous

Good word.

[from occupied ga]

I asked politely on my information page, not to add me to ping lists unless I specifically request it. I can't seem to recall asking you to place me on any lists. What makes you think that you have a better idea of what I want to read than I do? Generally speaking I find that this incessant pinging simply clutters up my self search and wastes my time. If you have something specifically directed to me or something that I posted by all means communicate it to me. Otherwise please do not ping me for anything general in the future.

[Maurice Tift]

...has endorsed the idea of taking territory back and herding the Palestinians into ever-closer quarters and ever-greater privation with each terrorist act. That has a chance. At least, it's untried.

After reading about the horror that the victims experience with every bombing, it doesn't seem reasonable to wait for more bombings. Certainly, Israel is already justified in taking all land necessary to protect itself.

Makes me think of a cartoon I saw recently. It looked a little bit like this:

[hope]

"If this kind of imagining is not persuasive, the president and his men might usefully consider how it's going to be to deal with a Palestinian government made up of men who not only countenance, but encourage others to kill and maim schoolchildren, not only in the name of Allah, but in the name of a state that will expect to be treated with courtesies and honor. The barbarism in the Middle East is enough to drive sane men nutty, even in Washington".

Their hoping the end will justify the means. It's nice to see someone in the press who finally gets it. The lamestream media and State dept officials who just don't get it should be made to witness first hand the maimed and shredded humans who die only because they are Jews.

[Travis McGee]

The Palestinean society is no different than a gang of hillbillies which raises packs of vicious killer pitbulls, then lets them loose in your neighborhood.

They share in the guilt of each massacre.

After Pearl Harbor we did not just indict the individual pilots who dropped the bombs, we bombed Japan into submission to stop their war mania. "Collective guilt and collective punishment?"

You bet.

[Travis McGee]

Jordan will not take them, the best Israel can do is shove them east one klick at a time until they are in a few tiny pockets living under blue plastic tarps against the Jordan River.

[Jackie222]

"We need a plan."

Actually, what they mean is.......something that will bring peace thru negotiating and talking. Since when does evil listen to reason? Why must be watch as this tiny nation fights for its life? I feel like a coward when bush says that Israel must defend itself but use restraint.

Peace will be won by war. Standing up for good against horrible people that have ceased to have any decency in them. satan's puppets.

War is not an option if Israel is to exist...it is necessary.

[walden]

I would certainly advocate jailing the parents and instituting fines & other financial punishments. These benighted people are accessories to murder, and as long as the parents and other children in the family profit, it won't stop.

[walden]

Texas is probably more pro-Israel than any other state in the union, and implying that Mexicans have ANYTHING in common with Palestinians is the most VILE and BASELESS SLANDER. No one loves their children more than the Mexicans-- and they're, in general, kind, happy, hard-working, family-oriented people.

[Pearls Before Swine]

I wrote:

The idea of collective punishment for individual crimes is normally repugnant to Western sensibilities.

And you replied in your Post #39:

There are a great number of people involved in this conspiracy to commit a crime....

No punishment would be just if it didn't include all of the accessories to the crime, here they are legion, a nation, enough to call it a war if they just had the backbone and declare themselves a state of Islam.

Agreed. I said "normally repugnant". This situation is NOT normal. One of my suggestions was that Israel could declare Pali tatehood and war on that state in the same speech.

It isn't the Israelis' job to search for the few decent non-complicit Palestinians.

[SJackson]

I wouldn't encourage the parents murder, but they encourage their children and abet the crime. Substantial punishment is called for, and would be met out here in the US.

[SJackson]

I've noticed you plan several times and while it's appealing, I doubt it would work. The pressure on Israel, internal and external, from an ongoing campaign of destruction would be too great. More important, more civilians don't need to die to justify occupying essential territory.

I'd suggest Israel would be much better off establishing defensible borders (which might require annexing 40%-60% of the West Bank) and taking a one time PR hit. Besides, given a dozen or so 1K attacks, and we know that will happen, your idea will be out in the same area anyway. Why wait for the deaths to act.

I'll post info on some of the former, similar proposals.

[SJackson]

Another plan from reputable sources.

Center for Security Policy

Thoughtful military experts have for many years recognized the risks for Israel should it no longer be able to control the territories it acquired in the course of the Six-Day War in June 1967. For example, shortly after the end of that conflict, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff concluded that, "From a strictly military point of view, Israel would require the retention of some captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders."

The Chiefs made the following specific findings:

"The prominent high ground running north-south through the middle of West Jordan [Judea and Samaria] generally...would provide Israel with a militarily defensible border."

"The commanding territory east of the boundary of 4 June 1967 [the Golan Heights]...overlooks the Galilee area. To provide a defense in-depth, Israel would need a strip about 15 miles wide extending from the border of Lebanon to the border of Jordan."

"By occupying the Gaza Strip, Israel would trade approximately 45 miles of hostile border for eight. Configured as it [was prior to 1967], the strip serve[d] as a salient for introduction of Arab subversion and terrorism and its retention would be to Israel's military advantage."

"To defend the Jerusalem area would require that the boundary of Israel be positioned to the east of the city to provide for the organization of an adequate defensive position."

…………………………

These findings are as valid today as they were in 1967. In fact, they have been reaffirmed again and again by knowledgeable military professionals. For example, in October 1988, 100 senior U.S. generals and admirals issued a public call for Israel to "retain the Jordan River line as [her] eastern security border" noting that:

"...If Israel loses this line, it would have virtually no warning of attack, its border would be three times longer than the present one. In the midsection of the country it would be 9 to 18 miles from the Mediterranean. Virtually all the population would be subject to artillery bombardment. The plain north of Tel Aviv could be riven by an armored salient within hours. The quick mobilization of its civilian army -- Israel's main hope for survival -- would be disrupted easily, and perhaps irreversibly."

…………………………

In 1991, Lieutenant General Thomas Kelly, the highly respected chief of Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during Desert Storm, said, "Israel's control over these areas is the only guarantee, however imperfect, of peace. Their loss is a prescription for war." He added that:

"The West Bank mountains, and especially their approaches, are the critical terrain. If an enemy secures those passes, Jerusalem and all of Israel become uncovered. Without the West Bank, Israel is only eight miles wide at its narrowest point. That makes it indefensible."

…………………………

Importantly, the Israeli Defense Forces are under no illusion about the abiding importance of strategic analyses like that performed by the Joint Chiefs. As the IDF Chief of Staff Ehud Barak said in May 1993:

"The 1967 Joint Chiefs of Staff memorandum [is] still applicable. The Arab arms are reaching superiority over Israel with a qualitative as well as quantitative edge....If Israel has to retake the territories proposed to be given up, we cannot do it without tremendous casualties."

…………………………………

[walden]

If your reply isn't sarcasm, then you're a leftist. Those are absolutely the only people I have EVER heard respond to an argument with such an illogical, disconnected, manipulative spiel. I remember when it happened to me once in an office meeting-- it was an old Berkely radical doing it, and I'll never again confuse the tactic or mistake the orientation of the actor.

Conservatives, Republicans, even libertarians argue logically (mainstream Democrats are also usually logical). Only leftists operate like this. So, I won't be responding to any more of your comments.