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To: tortoise
"And God doesn't demand good behavior through force? I don't see the distinction."

The distinction is that with God you have a choice. God doesn't force you to behave regardless of what think.

God is a libertarian. You decide how to live your life, and you reap the rewards of you are good, or the consequences if you are evil. Its still your choice, and your responsibility.

Gov't uses force. Mis-behave, you go to jail. Disagree with the majority? Too bad, you still have to go along with them or go to jail. Gov't is inherently authoritarian, the opposite of God.

33 posted on 06/19/2002 11:24:03 AM PDT by monday
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To: monday
God is a libertarian.

To the extent you are suggesting there is no divine favor or allowance for secular government that is not libertarian, your assertion is absolute hogwash.

Jesus Christ taught that men live under the authority of God AND secular government. He commanded that Christians give each sovereign its due. Jesus Christ himself was extremely careful to obey Roman law and to subject himself to Roman authority--and Rome was NOT a libertarian form of government. He was accused of resisting Roman authority, and the Roman magistrate--Pilate--found him not merely not-guilty, but innocent.

Jesus Christ's life was traded for the life of Barabbas. Barabbas was a libertarian. The rabble chose a secular libertarian over Jesus Christ. About thirty years later they were annihilated by Roman forces as a consequence. Not just the libertarian rabble were annihilated, the whole people suffered grievously.

Don't try to fob off secular libertarianism as God's favored form of goverment. Secular libertarianism can only work where the greater part of the people are moral, religious, and self-disciplined. When the people lack those characteristics, secular libertarianism is a recipe for anarchy and disaster. That God allows people to make stupid decisions does not mean He exalts and rewards stupid decisions in either the spiritual OR secular sphere.

35 posted on 06/19/2002 11:50:23 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: monday
Gov't uses force. Mis-behave, you go to jail. Disagree with the majority? Too bad, you still have to go along with them or go to jail.

A well armed minority is a real bitch for the democratic process when it goes awry. It has the option of fighting in the courts and if the courts won't side with the constitution the minority has the option of using deadly force to protect its rights. Screw democracy. It's candy-coated fascism when it is not strictly limited in scope. The democratic process in a free republic with a limited government is for choosing administrators who will keep the infrastructure working. It is not for choosing people to remake society in their image. That is where we libertarians disagree with conservatives and the left. We believe that social evolution should be driven totally be society itself and not by the state.

Gov't is inherently authoritarian, the opposite of God.

The only God that isn't authoritarian is the God of Deism. Every other view of God is of a God that says if you don't do things His way you go to Hell. Hell is basically a cosmic concentration camp.

41 posted on 06/19/2002 12:21:17 PM PDT by dheretic
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To: monday
God is a libertarian.

This statement hinges on blasphemy. And He's no Republican, Democrat, Green, or any other party label, either.

48 posted on 06/19/2002 12:56:35 PM PDT by rdb3
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