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ABRAHAM LINCOLN: AMERICA'S GREATEST WAR CRIMINAL
Dixie Daily ^ | 6/17/02 | Ron Holland

Posted on 06/17/2002 1:35:37 PM PDT by shuckmaster

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To: Torie
The thing that's amazing to me, that I will NEVER understand, is how the Democrats over the decades, centuries even, have been able to flip from side to side and dodge responsibilty for their reckless acts.

Some say "the Democrat Party of 1860 is not the Democrat Party of a hundred years later."

I say "bull-hockey." They've ALWAYS been the same: Demagogues of the worst sort.

Way back when, they used race-baiting. Now, they use...race-baiting. The identity of the race with whom they're aligned may have changed, but that's simply because Democrats have no principle. Whatever works to get them elected and keep them in power, that's what they'll do.

The Democrats are almost single-handedly responsible for the Civil War. They bear responsiblity for nearly making the division permanent, with their "peace movement" in the 1864 election (Hm, "peace movement," trying to capitulate to an enemy far weaker than you are, I think I see a pattern there, too).

The Democrats made sure the southern United States was "kept down" through the years so as to secure their hegemony.

And Democrats ruled all those years as pretty much a single party, and are the major reason the South lagged economically behind the north during that entire time.

Support for the slaveholders' rebellion is, emphatically, simply a support of Democrat Party dirty tricks then and now.

161 posted on 06/19/2002 3:24:56 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
Oh so we're translating are we? Illbayese, Mcpherson = 'the greatest historian since Josephus'. Josephus had Christ, and Mcpherson has lincoln. The fact is that McPherson takes his historical 'fact' from partial quotes of a consummate politician, lincoln. Ignore the statistics, the papers of the day, speeches from lincoln's detractors, statements from non-biased foreign papers and officials, anything that takes away from 'the lincoln'.

It's a treasure and a must-read for any serious student of U.S. history.

It's something alright I'll give you that. It's a fanciful revision to condone lincoln's actions. Heck, even McPherson himself calls lincoln a 'benevolent dictator'. Yeah, it's chockful of something

162 posted on 06/19/2002 5:22:38 AM PDT by billbears
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To: billbears
Heck, even McPherson himself calls lincoln a 'benevolent dictator'

Is there some sort of scale involved here? Say for instance, only 500,000 Americans were killed - would Lincoln have made "Saint"? < /sarcasm >

163 posted on 06/19/2002 6:01:56 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: billbears
I never said anything about "Josephus." I simply stated that Battle Cry of Freedom is a very good, honest account of that period of our nation's history. There is nothing "hack" about any of it.

Lincoln had flaws like any other leader our nation's ever had. But he led us through the nation's darkest hour, a crisis that far exceeded the two World Wars we've fought in on FOREIGN SHORES. As the war ground on, very tough decisions had to be made. He made 'em, and he took the brunt of criticism for them.

History shows that he was the greatest President of the Nineteenth Century, hands down. Perhaps, like GWB, that was an accident of chance, but as I believe that God has had His Hand in the affairs of this country since it's beginning, I don't believe in chance--then or now.

164 posted on 06/19/2002 6:12:29 AM PDT by Illbay
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Comment #165 Removed by Moderator

Comment #166 Removed by Moderator

To: Illbay
That's funny. I didn't get it until I looked at the name of the graphic. I must be getting old. Sigh.
167 posted on 06/19/2002 3:51:16 PM PDT by Huck
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To: Huck
Actually, I was being cute. I didn't think ANYBODY would get it. FWIW, I know NOTHING about "Linkin Park," other than that their inability to spell probably says volumes about them.

In my salad days, you tried to be clever and intellectual. Now, it's definitely "in" to be an idiot.

168 posted on 06/19/2002 4:08:38 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: rdf
You might check out post number 159. The book has a liberal bias (so far), but so far it is also transfixing.
169 posted on 06/19/2002 9:01:56 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
I will try to get to this.

I'm very busy at present, but you make it sound worthwhile.

The anti-Lincoln bigotry exhibited here, and the sentimental and regional base of it has been, to put it mildly, illuminating to me.

Regards,

Richard F.

170 posted on 06/19/2002 9:30:41 PM PDT by rdf
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To: Valin
Hey Valin, you ever seen the captured Confederate battle flag Minnesota boys won from the Virginia 28th during the Gettysburg scrum? It's real pretty! I think we'll keep it.

Actually, I had a couple of customers in from Richmond about 7 years ago and they had a Saturday stay over so we went down to O'Garas and got liquored up on a Saturday afternoon. After some discussion, we decided to go down to the Historical Society and steal the Stars and Bars back for the Virginny Rebs!!! We were serious about doing it, but apparently it's locked in a sealed steel vault about three stories below ground. We basically wandered around like three Alzheimer's patients until a security guard kicked us out. It's fairly secure from seizure. Good fun, they were great folks. Those guys were game faced and ready to rock, too. It's not smack talk material with them. We actually went to a cash machine and got bail money before our assault! Yikes.

We should have returned the flag to the Virginia contingent three years ago. It's an important icon to a lot of folks down there, and up here it's virtually non-existent to our residents. It was a disrectful gesture IMO. Lots of brave kids from both sides died in that battle, it's no disrepect to the Minnesota dead to return a symbol of their kin's sacrifice back to them. I asked Terwilliger about, and I guess it was decided to deny Virginia's request in some committee. Stupid stuff.

171 posted on 06/19/2002 9:57:32 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Paul C. Jesup; the_right_way
Yes, a lot of people died in the Civil War and the American conquest of the West. But after all that suffering, America became a country that was big enough and strong enough to defeat Hitler and the Japanese Empire at the same time. And today we have a big, powerful country that can take down any tyrant anywhere who threatens us with WMD. So I think it all had to happen, to create the American Superpower, a nation that can lead the World in the war against nuclear terror. The Sum of All Fears is just a movie, but the nuclear threat is very real. It's time for us to fight together and launch some "pre-emptive strikes" against the sponsors of nuclear terror. Let's roll, y'all.
172 posted on 06/19/2002 9:59:31 PM PDT by defenderSD
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To: Illbay
Regarding post 151: those guys don't look like Rednecks, they look like loggers.
173 posted on 06/19/2002 10:01:33 PM PDT by defenderSD
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To: ArneFufkin
130+ years I say they can have it back. Mn. got it message through to them at Gettysburg.
174 posted on 06/19/2002 10:02:11 PM PDT by Valin
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To: Valin
Those German and Scandinavian farm boys have some mad warrior skills in their genetics. That was a bloodbath. What a nightmare that battle must have been. It was about 90% total casualties if I recall, and lots of those were deaths. And we thought our teenage years were rough!
175 posted on 06/19/2002 10:10:05 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Torie
He has a very long chapter on Richard Russell - a gentleman, a genius, and almost a super human Robert E. Lee type. But then you read what came out of his mouth about race, and what he failed to reveal known to his own personal experience. It is a bit of a cold shower. Thank heavens those days of mental gymnastics are over for most of us.

The mental gymnastics are still going on, they've just been turned to discussion of history. Unfortunately, the passing of the segregationists means that people are able to construct their own Fantasy South. The Fantasy South looks a lot like the South or the America of today. But it's projected backwards to 1960 or 1930, 1860 or 1830. It's appealing to some in that one can appear to be a rebel and a loyalist, to thumb one's nose at political correctness, yet remain within its terms and conditions and even use current political correctness against those who tried to improve things in past years.

The old segregationists turned a lot of people leftward. If I had a dime for every liberal whose eyes watered at the mention of "Freedom Summer" and "Freedom riders" .... But the Russells at least made it clear that our past wasn't one great PC love fest. When one had to take ongoing segregation and bigotry into account, one couldn't whitewash past history, and turn Southern history into one long tale of victimization at the hands of the Yankees.

176 posted on 06/19/2002 10:32:07 PM PDT by x
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To: shuckmaster
... but it was obvious from his earlier speeches that he had previously advocated the prevalent constitutional right of democratic, state by state secession.

This is ignorant. Pig ignorant.

Shame on Ron Holland, who has done good work, and ought to know better.

Richard F.

177 posted on 06/19/2002 10:37:22 PM PDT by rdf
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To: shuckmaster
After reading the responses to Ron Holland's article, I'm convinced of one thing: nothing inspires such blind antiSouthern hatred in yankees and such an outpouring of venom and name-calling as a Southerner who tells the truth.
178 posted on 06/20/2002 9:56:56 AM PDT by MiddyArcher
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To: defenderSD
Yes, a lot of people died in the Civil War and the American conquest of the West. But after all that suffering, America became a country that was big enough and strong enough to defeat Hitler and the Japanese Empire at the same time. And today we have a big, powerful country that can take down any tyrant anywhere who threatens us with WMD.

So in your opinion it is okay for ONLY those you praise to committed genocide. That makes you hypocrite.

By the way, Hitler's greatest enemy was his own stupidity. Also, you completely ignored World War I.

So I think it all had to happen, to create the American Superpower, a nation that can lead the World in the war against nuclear terror.

No nuke, nor radiation bomb has YET been used against us.

If you HAD actually been paying attention to what the government has been saying. You would have noted that they say the only way they can protect us is only if they take away all OUR rights.

My opinion is I would rather be dead than be a slave. There is no point in living if you have no rights.

The Sum of All Fears is just a movie, but the nuclear threat is very real. It's time for us to fight together and launch some "pre-emptive strikes" against the sponsors of nuclear terror. Let's roll, y'all.

The Sum of All Fears MOVIE is a politically correct 'blame the white man' piece of garbage. Also, the only "pre-emptive strikes" , besides what has been done in Afghanistan, by the government has been against OUR rights.

If the government were serious about terrorists, Arafat and Saudam would be dead and the House of Saud would have fallen by now.

179 posted on 06/20/2002 4:22:32 PM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
You completely missed the point I was trying to make. I suggest that you go out and hit some golf balls and get all that anger out of your system. There will be more pre-emptive strikes. Saddam's government will be gone in less than six months. Have a great day, and God bless you.
180 posted on 06/20/2002 6:55:04 PM PDT by defenderSD
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