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Garage Door Was Open at Smart House
Fox News ^ | today | AP

Posted on 06/17/2002 7:40:10 AM PDT by Rodney King

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:33:59 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Labyrinthos
Oh, please. I have four beautiful daughters. If any of them had gotten mixed up with a polygamist, my husband and I would have been devastated. I think, in my entire life, I have only been acquainted with one woman who went off and joined a polygamist clan, and she did that in her 40's, leaving behind a devastated husband. Everybody who knew her thought she was nuts.

How does this other nonsense even get started?

61 posted on 06/17/2002 8:39:46 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: Rodney King
And, that we believe that one of the Ramsey's family did it (which I think is obvious). And, we think that the VD's horror would not have happened had they not had wild orgies in their house

With the Ramsey's and VD's, freepers are mostly using facts to draw conclusions from, and those conclustions seem reasonable to me as well.

In THIS case however, freepers are straining at the most trivial of items to try and justify filling in the blanks with their own pet theory. Many of them have decided it was the Uncle, and force every thing to fit their theory. Never mind that the screen was NOT cut from the inside, never mind that the POLICE aren't pushing for an artist (or the many reason why are not), never mind that this is a huge strain on the whole family.

The POLICE, not the family, are keeping a tight lid on the information, and the wise person will not judge with only part of the story.

62 posted on 06/17/2002 8:40:50 AM PDT by Grig
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To: twigs
I agree and understand. But if you heard him in his interview. I personally don't buy it, but then heopfully if he is connected it will be exposed. Ever read "How to hear God's voice" by Peter Lord?
63 posted on 06/17/2002 8:42:50 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: lady lawyer
How does this other nonsense even get started?

Well, start with someone who spends 10 hours a day in front of a computer instead of engaging in "real" life, add lots of caffeine drinks and crunchy snacks, and before you know it.... conspiracy du jour!

64 posted on 06/17/2002 8:43:59 AM PDT by Boatlawyer
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To: lady lawyer
The artcle didn't say that at all...you have jumped to some conclusion that isn't stated and that's what you are blaming us for doing.
65 posted on 06/17/2002 8:44:24 AM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: lady lawyer
I have only been acquainted with one woman who went off and joined a polygamist clan, and she did that in her 40's, leaving behind a devastated husband.

Like I said, stranger things have happened than a mid-life change in religious beliefs.

66 posted on 06/17/2002 8:48:40 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Ann Archy
Sacrament Meeting only lasts an hour and 15 minutes. You make it sound like he camped out at church all day, and left his family home alone.
67 posted on 06/17/2002 8:51:12 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: Labyrinthos
How does a stranger -- that is, someone who has never been inside the house before -- find his way to the girl's room through a million dollar labyrinth in the darkness of the night and then escape with the girl undetected?

What makes you think he picked that girl ahead of time? What is so hard about sneaking around quietly? You don't have to know the place ahead of time, in fact he might have been looking for a different room (a home office?) and took the girl because he went to the WRONG room. Also, the house was for sale, and being renovated, so LOTS of STRANGERS had been there, and the floor plan was even online I think.

My kids sleep like the dead, and I if I wanted I could pick them up and put them in the car and drive off without them even waking up. I can also go in, wake them up, ask questions, get answers, let them go back to sleep and they will have NO memory of it in the morning.

The police have ruled out her being a runaway, and your third idea is not credible either. Those who practice polygamy do so against the law and do everything they can to fly under the radar. They don't steal kids, they recuit adults and child-brides are from other polygamous families. There is NOTHING to suggest any connection with polygamy and you are only using old steriotypes to speculate instead of facts.

68 posted on 06/17/2002 8:51:49 AM PDT by Grig
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To: Labyrinthos
Mormon fathers do not sacrifice their daughter to polygamist clans. This is one of the silliest theories yet.
69 posted on 06/17/2002 8:52:30 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
No, I haven't but am interested. I would like to hear more about it, but maybe you should write me via freep-mail, since we are engaging in thread creep! I've had my doubts, too, and I think that someone with knowledge of Elizabeth had to direct the perp, but I'm trying to follow evidence and not make assumptions. I just know that if this had been my child, my reactions would be so unpredictable that anyone viewing me would probably be asking why has this woman not been locked up long ago?
70 posted on 06/17/2002 8:54:09 AM PDT by twigs
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To: lady lawyer
Please re-read your reply to see how many "Probably's" you had in there.

Look, obviously you are a Mormon....but this has NOTHING to do with her being a Mormon as to what Freepers are speculating on.....common sense says that something is WRONG. When the police came there were about 10 COUPLES already there. Were the police THAT slow or were the couples called BEFORE the police were called?

If I called a friend and said that my child was taken from her bedroom I would PRAY that my friends would be out looking and NOT just at the house. Take off your Mormon hat and put on your LAW hat....just for a SECOND!

71 posted on 06/17/2002 8:54:39 AM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
When I got up I kneeled down beside my wife to pray and was expecting our daughter to join us and knew something was wrong when she didn't". Are they on a set prayer schedule where they meet at a specific time each morning?

Yes. That's part of what Mormons do, pray as a family once or twice a day. At 7:45am you will find me and my family kneeling together in prayer.

And then *ding* he remembers he left the garage door open half the day?

No, read befor you post, he rememberd and closed the garage door before he went to bed. He told the police all of this in his first interview but it is only now being released to the public.

72 posted on 06/17/2002 9:00:14 AM PDT by Grig
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To: Ann Archy
Yes, I had a lot of "probably"s in my posts. But they are informed by what I know about the culture and habits of Mormon families. Thus, my probablies are better informed than your probablies.
73 posted on 06/17/2002 9:03:01 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: Labyrinthos
If so then why involve the police? It would just be stupid. You are trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole with this theroy, give it up.
74 posted on 06/17/2002 9:06:04 AM PDT by Grig
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To: twigs
Just out of curiosity, do you think that in a similar situation you'd call friends before you call the cops, and that you'd let a lot of people stampede the crime scene before the cops got there?
75 posted on 06/17/2002 9:06:13 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: Rodney King
Thanks for the bump- I think that this little tidbit coming out now (why so late?) should redirect suspicion towards the "extended family". As I freepmailed to someone else on one of these threads, I thought at first that this was a "staged" abduction, and probably involved a boyfriend-a common scenario. But EVERY TIME I see or hear TweedleDum and TweedleDee (the father and the uncle) I get a bad feeling about this whole thing. These folks are at least terminally strange, and if you watched all of their interviews (especially the uncle, who appears to be making the most of his 15 minutes of fame) I think you would have to conclude that they know a LOT more about what happened to this girl than they are telling.

This garage door story is another red herring thrown into the path of the investigators- I don't think it will slow them down very much.

76 posted on 06/17/2002 9:12:01 AM PDT by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: Grig
What makes you think he picked that girl ahead of time? What is so hard about sneaking around quietly? You don't have to know the place ahead of time, in fact he might have been looking for a different room (a home office?) and took the girl because he went to the WRONG room. Also, the house was for sale, and being renovated, so LOTS of STRANGERS had been there, and the floor plan was even online I think.

In my original post I suggested that the list of suspects should include people who have performed work inside the house such as painters and electricians. I don't know whether the hosue was actually on the market at the time the girl disappeared, but if so, I would include real estate brokers and their clients on the list of suspects.

I also find it hard to believe that the perp was in the house looking for a home office, stumbled upon the girl and decided right then and there to add kidnapping to the the potential burglary charge.

My final theory is no doubt far fetched, but given the success of conventional wisdom in finding the girl, you ought not be so harsh on me. And BTW, I didn't suggest that she was stolen, but rather that I was simply speculating upon a motive for her disappearance in the event that a member of her family is on the list of suspects.

77 posted on 06/17/2002 9:15:45 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Ann Archy
common sense says that something is WRONG.

Liz is gone, so of course something is wrong. It's a fact however that the police are not letting out much information, so to try and make judgements about who is guilty when you don't have all the information is WRONG too. Too many of you are filling in the blanks your own way with nothing facutaly to support you. You speak in the tone of experts about things that you clearly are not familiar with and it's getting tiresome.

When the police came there were about 10 COUPLES already there. Were the police THAT slow or were the couples called BEFORE the police were called?

No, Mormons just form much closer communities and neighbours are not strangers. Also, I'm not going to call the police about something unless I'm sure they are needed. For the parents to search the house and check with neighbours where Liz's friends live first is not at all odd. Even with the 9 year old saying she was taken, that is not something a parent will want to belive. Perhaps the fact that Mormons are so willing to get up and help eachother is what is odd to you, but it is certainly NOT even close to being a sign of something amiss if you understand Mormon culture.

78 posted on 06/17/2002 9:18:51 AM PDT by Grig
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To: mountaineer
I was just wondering why, if it's not news or not significant to the event, why mention it?

It is relevant because it places the last time the family can vouch for seeing each other.

79 posted on 06/17/2002 9:19:09 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: Ann Archy
Why didn't the dad spend Father's Day with his other children??? You would think he wouldn't spend it at a ward....what is a ward anyway?

I agree with you. I am real surprised that he went by himself, instead of being with his other children and his wife. I'm wondering if the story is beginning to unravel.

Maybe I am just jaded because I have known other families that held dark secrets.

80 posted on 06/17/2002 9:20:18 AM PDT by FR_addict
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