Posted on 06/17/2002 6:27:47 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
Edited on 04/29/2004 2:00:42 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Witnesses recall 2 men in truck rental office
Two eyewitnesses testified Tuesday they still believe a second man was with McVeigh when he rented the truck.
Thomas Kessinger, a mechanic at the Ryder Truck shop in Junction City, Kansas, admitted he described the wrong man in helping the FBI draw its sketch of the second man, identified in court as John Doe No. 2.
But when McVeigh's lawyer asked him if someone else had been with McVeigh, Kessinger said, "Yes, I thought there was."
"And you think that today?" asked McVeigh's attorney, Stephen Jones.
"Yes," Kessinger replied.
Shop owner Eldon Elliott testified that he, too, saw a second man in his office.
"There was another person in there, yes," Elliott said under defense questioning. However he said he could not describe the second man.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/599926/posts?q=1&&page=1
For anyone interested in the facts concerning the witness statements concerning the John Doe 2 seen in Elliot's Body Shop, the above link is a good source.
LOL, you hit the bullseye(is that thing still floating out in the Pacific?)
Don't avoid it, if at all possible state it out. Inquiring minds want to know what is going on there.
I went to the VERY SAME Taco Bell that Padilla worked at yesterday and "staked" it out. Absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Chalupas & Burritos served up as normal.
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On Friday, February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. As a result of the explosion, 6 persons were killed, and more than 1,000 injured
Padilla has been taken captive as an unlawful combatant and no one who would know, last I heard, has mentioned how long he will be detained.
Who is holding him?
He is being held by the Department of Defense in a Navy brig in the Carolinas.
Does he have a lawyer?
He has a lawyer who claims to reprisent him, but I haven't heard if Padllla asked her to do so, or if she is just ambulance-chasing on her own time. I believe it is the latter as I think she just knew there was a case-number and decided to inquire as to status.
Has he been charged?
You don't charge comabatants, lawful or unlawful, unless you believe they have committed a crime outside of just fighting your army. But no, he has not been charged with anything as far as I know, though there is a possibility of it. If there is a trial, the charges will be made known and so forth.
Will he get a trial?
There are no mention of plans to try him for anything at this time, and according to Rumsfeld the DoD is not interested in trying him but they are interested in finding out who he knows and where his associates are before they manage to do some of the things they have been interested in doing. Chances are, he will not be charged with anything, though if there is sufficient evidence he could be in trouble. He will probably be pressured to act as a witness against higher-ups in the al-Qeada organization, perhaps with the 'stick' of a charge akin to that of the German-American saboutiers from WW2 to make him willing. There are one or two other people being detained in Pakistan about whom he should be able to tell us more- or, they may tell us more about him. I think the former since if my guess is right those two are the higher-ups he met with. There is a chance that his joining in a foreign force which has declared war on the US may result in him having his citizenship taken away and be deported... to Pakistan. Or he may very well face worse, owing to the number of witnesses that can be brought to bear in his exchange of information and money. If he sings like a bird and acts as a witness against higher-ranking al-Qeada he may elect to join the witness protection program or simply be deported sans his citizenship. This is speculation, of course. At this time there are no public plans to try him. As an unlawful combatant he can be held until the conflict ends, until al-Qeada leadership has surrendered or been captured.
Is his case different that all of the other terrorists captured so far?
He is the only case I know of so far which involves an individual who is an American citizen, who has direct, witnessed ties to al-Qeada not as a field soldier but as an agent of espionage, AND who has also been convicted of murder in a civil court. He is also the only individual whom we have traced from a physical meeting with known al-Qeada leadership in Pakistan, to a receipt of substantial funds from al-Qeada in Zurich, etc., back to the US, with witnesses all along the way and witnesses in custody to his actions, and probably lots of pictures of his 'vacation.'
Why was the administration wincing about Ashcrofts characterization of Padilla's "plot"?
They did no such thing. THe rumor that the administration was 'wincing' stems in part from a USA Today report where the writer claimed, but failed to substantiate, that in a CBS interview of Wolfowitz, Wolfowitz had expressed annoyance at Ashcroft over something that Ashcroft had never said. The writer used some clipped-ip and out-of-context quotes from Wolfowitz, but the quote had nothing to do with Ashcroft... it was instead directed at the press in general for reading their own ideas into the statements of public figures. Wolfowitz's statements from the interview which were conveniently NOT quoted in USA Today article, pretty much agreed with the seriousness of the situastion, and did not counterdict earlier administration statements.
If Padilla was JD#2, then wouldn't he be a terrible liability to those who are involved in the cover-up of OKC??
First of all, you are assuming that there is a coverup, which has not yet been proven. That the investigation was rushed, not very open, and spiked with political-correctness is clear. If there was an intentional coverup, this could make things awkward if there is evidence that someone intentionally hid information on JohnDoe#2 from other investigators, either for the political reasons of keeping the blame on 'right wingers' in general, or because of some sympathies with JohnDoe#2.
Wouldn't it make sense that those folks would want JD#2/Padilla contained?
Nope. Those folks would want John Doe #2 dead and dropped somewhere in the Indian Ocean with a set of concrete shoes. The only people who would want JD#2 'contained,' and not dead o r'missing,' are people who want to know who he knows. The rest of us want him contained for so that he can no longer meet with terrorists or take their money for services rendered or services to be rendered.
The US Government could simply have made Padila disappear if they so desired. No one would know. But they instead took him and let him fly to the US where they took him, probably before passing through customs into the US. They then entered his case into the record, so that his capture would be accounted for, and where ultimately the self-appointed lawyer developed an interest in the case. Clearly, making him 'disappear' is not their desire.
Why was Ashcroft hell bent on seeing McVeigh dead.
Making certain the sentences are carried out is part of his JOB. McVeigh had been convicted, and rightfully so; the appeals process was not dragged out because McVeigh did not drag it out, and because there were no wimpy leftist anti-death penalty folks out there trying to save his hide- instead, the left was against him because he was seen as a 'right wing militia type,' and the right was against him because the right just doesn't like murderers, and never has. McVeigh would be just as guilty with or without John Doe #2.
Even in light of the thousands of documents the FBI suddenly found before the execution.
Did McVeigh succeed in asking for an appeal based on additional documents? Did MCVeigh finger anyone else for OKC? He was convicted, and he was sentenced, and he wasn't fighting to the end, so his case naturally went fast- precisely because McVeigh wanted to keep his silence to the end and did not try to string it out with a 'free Mumia-style campaign. That kind of stoicism is exceedingly rare among common criminals, but more common among ideologues. We are seeing a similar sort of behavior with the '20th' hijacker, Moussaoui. The attorney general isn't a judge. He cannot overturn a case, and in a case where the defendant has resigned himself to be a martyr, there isn't much that can be done, assuming anyone wanted to, short of declaring the person insane.
Could Ashcroft want Padilla contained for the same reasons?
NOPE. Padilla was perfectly contained in Pakistan, and could have been 'taken care of' at any time. You don't bring a guy back and enter his case into the record to be founf by nosy little lawyers if you intend to 'contain' someone.
Will we see a death penalty in Padilla's future?
It's doubtful, unless there is much more evidence we do not know of at this time. No one has expressed an interest in even trying him as of yet.
Why would this administration be continuing the cover-up of the OKC tradgedy.
Straw dog. There is no evidence that 'the Administration' is doing anything of the sort.
....which occured on Clintons watch?
Which allegedly occured, however fishy it may seem.
When will we get to see ALL of the video tapes showing JD#2?
Don't know. If there is reason to believe JD#2 is guilty of a crime and can be found and tried and convicted, then you will probably see the videos. Until then, it would be inappropriate to show videos of someone who is potentially innocent.
It would after all put this issue to rest........or does the government have something to hide?
No, it wouldn't put any issues to rest... no conspiracy theory, once started, is ever 'brought to rest.' Not even if the conspiracy is proven to be true- then, a NEW conspiracy theory is established on the pretext that the 'solution' was too convenient. And if the conspiracy is disproven, people still suspicious write it up in e-mails and spam everyone with the things in the hopes that not everyone knows about snopes.com .
THere are three kinds of people in the world, and the third is exceedingly rare. There are those who assume the worst (all politicians are crooks types), for whom a glass is half empty... there are those who assume the best (the government is never wrong types), for whom a glass is half full, and there are the endangered ones who see a glass twice as big as it needs to be. (People who believe that by and large, the average person in government service tends to be neither better than, nor worse, than we are.)
Copper foil is even better but hard to keep clean and bright.
http://www.newsindia-times.com/2002/01/25/intl18-detain.html
2 detained men indicted for credit card fraud
NEW YORK : Two Indian-American men arrested from an Amtrak train in Texas a day after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. have pleaded innocent to credit card fraud charges. Syed Gul Mohammed Shah (earlier identified as Ayub Ali Khan) and Mohammed Azmath entered their pleas in two separate proceedings before federal judges in Manhattan on Jan. 16. Both had been indicted on the federal charges a day earlier.
These 9-11 terrorists will walk just like the 9-11 terrorists that worked on the sprinklers in the WTC days before 9-11 walked. FEMA determined the sprinklers were disabled in the WTC and the Hammad cousins were arrested in Memphis for drivers license fraud and it was established in court they were working in the WTC towers as "plumbers." Go figure.
After reading it again, I realize the reference is to the Siddique brothers and Muhammad Chafi.
Interesting. Glad you caught that!
I believe it is possible there may be a connection between the Pakistani Memphis Professor Shafi and the Pakistani Chafi connected to the OKC bombing.
First, these guys often conveniently provide a mispelling of their names.
Second, I read an email by Professor Shafi on the Yahoo Memphis Da'wah praising his Taliban brothers fighting in Afghanistan and wishing them success.
Third, his association with the Islamic extremism put forth by CIS:Resources on Islam and Science.
I don't think let is the operative term. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has reported, Billy Jeff credits the Oklahoma City bombing with having gotten him his second term.
I think you are correct. The operative term I think that is more appriorate is, "allowed McVeigh to be used, so as to pin this on the waco militia men and right wingers". After all that blame on the militia men at that time got BUBBa a lot milage and re elected, then he got the gun control Brady bill. BUBBA knows the truth of this, and one day he will have to repent before GOD, so not to worry.
Sorry I did not reply to you earlier, I was not online all day yesterday.
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