Two senators questioning detention without charges [Bush-hater, John McCain, at it again]

Miami Herald Online ^ | Wednesday, June 12, 2002 | BY JAMES KUHNHENN AND CASSIO FURTADO

[hchutch]

Too bad that guy can't be snatched, and then turn up bound and gagged at Gitmo or elsewhere.

Rights? I don't care about his rights. What about the rights of the people his plot would have killed or poisoned? Who speaks for them?

[AzJP]

Sorry Angela, but on CNN just now a fed spokesperson said they had no specific evidence of a definite attack by this dweeb.

[scalia_#1]

Thanks for the ping. The problem is that the Bush's Exec. Order establishing detention of unlawful combatants applies only to non-citizens, and while Quirin permits the detention of citizens and their trial in military courts, the Commission that FDR appointed was not limited to non-citizens. If we're going to do this right, the President needs to amend his EO to include citizens, or else Padilla's lawyer will likely win on the writ.

[Aedammair]

911 was a tragedy but not nearly the tragedy the nullification of our Constitution would be.

Linclon suspended the writ of Habeus Corpus (sp?) during the Civil War. The measures Justice is taking trying to prevent another 9/11 is analogous. Habeus Corpus was not suspended forever, and holding suspects as military combatants will not prevail or pervade.

President Bush is doing the right thing. Freedom is not going to be worth much when and if radiation corrupts the air we breath and the water we drink. Do you think the Founding Fathers would have reacted differently that the current President in this siutation? I don't! Due process ain't what it used to be, being that it has been corrupted by defense attorneys ready, willing and ably abetted by higher courts to defend the indefensible.

The founding fathers were patriots and idealists, but they were not fools. Security and freedom go hand in hand. Freedom can't exist amid chaos, ask any of the people around the world under siege. I am not worried about this man's civil rights; I'll leave that tothe likes of those great defenders of freedom, Dershewitz (sp?), Cochran and Shapiro.

[Kevin Curry]

I'm just stating the fact - and it is a fact - that the Constitution applies to him if he is a citizen.

Because of his despicable and treasonous actions in a foreign country he has forfeited his full rights. You would give this avowed enemy of our nation greater rights than we give our own military men and women. You, Iwo Jima, and the rest of the knee jerk mental flyweights are screwed up in your thinking and priorities beyond all belief.

[weaponeer]

By joining forces with Al Qaeda to attack American citizens he has in fact renounced his citizenship.

How do you know that he joined forces with Al Qaeda? Have you seen any evidence? Has the Gov't presented any? Has a jury looked at the evidence and the facts? No.

Remember when the Gov't was telling us that David Koresch and the Branch Davidians were running a drug lab and abusing little girls? All charges that turned out to be lies?

[Iwo Jima]

He entered our country with intent to cause harm to the populace and therefore the Justice Department applied EX PARTE QUIRIN, 317 U.S. 1 (1942).

And just how, pray tell, do you know that? The government told you so? But that's just the point. In this country under our Consitution no citizen has to accept the government accusation of guilt as proof of guilt.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

McCain isn't the only guy who has been concerned about this -- witness the other threads on Free Republic. I, for one, am glad there are people who will keep the pressure on for our government to remember that we not only have to protect our citizens, but we have to do it by the Rule of Law. If non-citizens aren't entitled to those protections, then let's at least do it by respect and common decency. The posts from Freepers I've read seem to be divided between those who feel the Constitution applies to everyone on the face of the earth, if they happen to be on American soil when an offence occurs, and those who feel we'll let Bush, et al., continue in the current mode, so long as we stay safe. Let's make sure we always act like the good guys we believe ourselves to be. A little scrutiny of our procedures couldn't hurt, and a lot of scrutiny of our enemies would help a lot more.

[billbears]

This double standard has been bothering me for a few days, CD. Why does Padilla get treated as an unlawful combatant while Lindh doesn't? If anything Lindh has more of an argument for unlawful combatant status than Padilla. Under US code, Lindh gave up his citizenship by fighting for the Afghan government before 9/11. But he's held for treason, while the worst that would probably happen to Padilla under military law is to be treated as a POW and returned to Afghanistan after the War on Terror is over

Now before I am flamed, I am not taking the side of either of these gentlemen. But this is a double standard. Preferrably treat them both as POWs and return them to their new homeland after the Police Action on Terror is over

[weaponeer]

You are missing my point. The claim is the guy isn't having his rights upheld but at the same time he has an attorney (which is most likely court appointed) and that attorney is pursuing his rights under the constitution. I don't see where this man's rights have been violated yet.

I don't think you understand the situation. He has been held over a month without any charges being filed against him. He hasn't been arraigned. His lawyer is not court appointed, as he has been "removed from the justice system" and hasn't been allowed to communicate with her. She's doing this on her own.

How would you like them to be able to do this to you, just because they want to? Without presenting any evidence to a Grand Jury, a judge, or anyone else, that you have committed any crime.

[Iwo Jima]

"Linclon suspended the writ of Habeus Corpus (sp?) during the Civil War."

And that blatantly unconstitutional and totally unnecessary act was, as expected, declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. These unconstitutional powers now being usurped by our government will meet with the same fate, I predict, by our current Supreme Court, with my favorite justices Scalia and Thomas leading the way. I take it that your favorite justices would be Souter, Stevens, and others who see the Constitution as a "living" document whose plain meaning can and should be ignored to make sure that government gets its way and that the freedom of the people are steadily reduced.

[Brytani]

"See post# 62. I don't believe they are holding him based on the Patriot Act or Bush's EO. He entered our country with intent to cause harm to the populace and therefore the Justice Department applied EX PARTE QUIRIN, 317 U.S. 1 (1942). I understand they are using the SC case going back to WWII to justify the detention without charges. Regardless, he is an American citizen with the right afforded as being such.

This is another cases where the legal/right thing to do may not be the best for the country yet we all need to demand our elected officials and government stick to the provisions of the constitution. As I said, charge him, detain him without the possibility of bail, put him on trial and execute him.

[VRWC_minion]

The fact that his case is being filed in a federal court says his rights are still in tact.

As far as history goes, the man was originally detained by Pakistan who could have held him indefinately were it not for US intervention on gaining his release.

[solo gringo]

Mc cain Has never seen a commie he did not like.He has proved it time again.

[callisto]

In all honesty, in this case, I'm giving the Administration the benefit of the doubt. I love my freedom just as much as the next person, but IMHO if we aren't willing to give just a little to gain the safety of all, I'm not sure how much of a country we might have left one day should these terrorists achieve their ultimate goal...our destruction. The terrorist are counting on the fact that they can use our laws and freedoms against us to bring about our demise. They've already demonstrated this ability and will continue into the future. I understand everyone's fears and justifications against holding this man under a charge that renders him a non-citizen, but we seem to be bickering over the application of a 60-year old ruling. Where was everyone complaining during those 60 years or do we only complain when these laws are brought to the forefront of our knowledge?

[Nonstatist]

does he EVER get the opportunity to refute that?

In a military court he would have the opportunity to make his argument that he didn't belong there. He'll get a military "due process".

OTOH, if the government's contention that he's a member of Al Qaeda doesent pan out or lies on a thin reed, it's going to be a huge setback for Bush, . Beyond stupid, IMO.

[Who is George Salt?]

Game, set, match.

Playing with yourself again?

The government can't make it's case. A street-punk and likely high school dropout was in charge of Al Qaeda's radiologic weapon research program? Yeah, right!

If, as the government alleges, this guy is an Al Qaeda operative, then let them prove their case in court. If he is found guilty, then execute him.

[3AngelaD]

I would refer you to today's New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times and Wall Street Journal, which I have on my desk. I do not consider CNN a news organization, it is a propaganda machine for the Democratic Party and other enemies of America. I will grant you that the newspapers aren't all that I would want, either, but the fact that they are so fiercely competitive works to our advantage occasionally. Bottom line: they have enough on this guy to fry him right now, but want to hear what he has to say about his fellow towelheads.