Atheists improve society

The Orange County Register ^ | 11 June 2002 | Richard Cheek

[thinktwice]

In your June 7 editorial on the moving of the Ayn Rand Institute to Irvine ["Ayn Rand in O.C.''], you stated that you took issue with some of Ayn Rand's positions, including her ardent atheism. In today's world of terrorism and conflicts fueled by ardent religious beliefs, it would seem appropriate that you would take issue with ardent religious people, not with any atheists.

[exnavy]

Good point on #947, if I have to show someone evidence to have them believe God exists, what's the point?

[Dimensio]

People who believe that invisible creatures live in the sky should go see a shrink. This is the year 2002 for Christ's sake. Rational people realize that there are no gods, no devils, no demons, no ghosts, and no angels watching our every move, only a natural (but sometimes mysterious) universe

There is something amusing and ironic about the second sentence. There's also something odd and unusual about the poster's screen name.

[balrog666]

You walk outside. You see the ground is wet. What is that evidence for?

First, in this case, both you and I would agree that the ground is wet. So would anybody who experienced it (excepting loonys). That constitutes evidence. The conclusion one could draw from that evidence is wide open - as you say, many conclusions are possible depending on your background and experience in evaluating wet ground. Some of those explanations we would find improbable, ludicrous, or (as medved would say) stupid - doesn't matter, we all agree on the evidence.

You see "evidence" of a god when I scratch my ass. I don't. Most people wouldn't. Other theists would differ as to which god is evident in my scratching of my ass. The conclusion you draw is totally irrelevant if we can't agree on what constitutes evidence in the first place.

Also, if the sum total of your "evidence" is the existence of our universe or "we" as a species, you can all quit wasting our time in this discussion. We see the existence of our universe, and ourselves, as evidence of *Univ, a continuous creation-destruction cycle of universes, an eternal universe, a creation-by-a-giant-chicken-named-Harry-from-Pasedena-universe, or whatever-floats-your-boat-explanation. It's simply not relevant to the discussion because all "creation theories/creation myths" are equally unverifiable and equally inconsequential in their ramifications.

Finally, given the number of views of the creation question in science, literature, philosophy, and mythology around the world, and the spectrum of primitive creation myths around the world, why is yours any better an explanation than any one of them selected at ramdom?

[thinktwice]

Then, before long, you've got oceans of self-replicating molecules. They bubble and boil and combine and re-combine for millions of years. It's not really inevitable that you'll get living material out of this organic brew. But it's certainly not impossible. And here we are. Ta-da!

Well stated; but the icing on the cake is that we're walking around in bodies created in the image of God.

[balrog666]

Make that several oceans, because earth has lots of ocean. Carbon forms organic compounds very easily. You can't really prevent it.

Hey, don't stop there! We may have had a billion earth-like planets just in this galaxy, and then a few billion galaxies of billions of planets, and then a few billion clusters of galaxies, and then a few billion super-clusters of clusters, and then ...

In any case, we are here, so the probability was 1 for us. How many other us'es are (or were) out there is still open to question.

[balrog666]

...the icing on the cake is that we're walking around in bodies created in the image of God

Oh, please. Post a picture for us of the one and only.

[MEGoody]

Atheism is not a "belief"

Funny, I hear atheists state "There is no God" all the time, which is very obviously a belief.

[MEGoody]

Then, before long, you've got oceans of self-replicating molecules. They bubble and boil and combine and re-combine for millions of years. It's not really inevitable that you'll get living material out of this organic brew. But it's certainly not impossible. And here we are. Ta-da!

LOL

[BMCDA]

Arguably, it is an event which is mathematically impossible -- based on the age of the universe and the amount of events possible during that time.

If it's mathematically impossible I'd say prove it.
Once again, if an event is very unlikely it doesn't mean that it must only happen after a long amount of time. It may happen in the next minute or only after several billions of years.

[BMCDA]

Well, some do that but it's not necessary to qualify as an atheist. It's absolutely sufficient to lack a believe in deities. So one who says that there is no God by default does not believe in his existence.

To be a theist it's only important to believe in at least one god and to be an atheist you have to lack a belief in any god. Why you believe or lack a belief in a god is not important for the theist/atheist debate.

[BMCDA]

believe -> belief

[Phaedrus]

To which "God" are you referring?

Inane question, Dimensio. Perhaps you should play word games with someone else.

[Dimensio]

Inane question, Dimensio. Perhaps you should play word games with someone else.

Why is it inane? You stated "God" as though it were a specific defined concept. I'm aware that various religions have various ideas of a "God", but those definitions are not consistent and if you're going to present "God" in the definition of an atheist then you should be specific as to which "God" you are referring.

[f.Christian]

The big lie...

Originally liberals were social conservatives who advocated growth and progess mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality...the nature of man/govt. does not change.

Atheist secular materialists through evolution removed the foundations...made the absolutes relative and call all technology evolution(science) to substantiate their efforts--claims...social engineering--PC!

Liberals/Evolution BELIEVE they are the conservatives too!

What's left?

[Dimensio]

I can state that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a good show. That's a belief, but I don't think that it's inconsistent with atheism.

I never said that atheism precludes belief in anything or even anything regarding gods. An atheist can believe that the concept of a particular god construct is repugnant, interesting or funny however atheism alone implies nothing regarding belief except the lack of a belief in any deities.

[Dimensio]

Your comment does nothing toward providing evidence toward the existence of any gods. What is your point?

[f.Christian]

Abscence/denial of reality---belief in the unreal/lies/delusions/fantasy...psychosis(pt.)/liberalism!

[Dimensio]

Once again, you have not provided objective evidence for the existence of any gods.

I'm waiting. If you are postulating a god with specific properties, then the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate that there exists a god with those specific properties.

[f.Christian]

The concept/belief/reality of God requires a soul/life(mind)...get one 1st---w/o the pride-ego/bias is a prerequisite!