Poll: Four in Five Americans Would Give Up Some Freedom for More Security (MORON ALERT)

Tampa Bay Online (AP) ^ | 6-11-02 | Jennifer L. Brown

[Alan Chapman]

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." – Julius Caesar

[tpaine]

May be you'll hang around long enough, so I can beat the cojones off you too. Have a good evening.

Strange dreams of 'beating' cojones, Rman? Weird fella.

[christine]

:)

[FreedominJesusChrist]

That was a great reminder to us all of what is at stake here--our personal freedom. Let us not forget that or be willing to support garbage like this.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

I'm not asking you to. In fact your freedom and security means nothing to me.

ANOTHER Distinction! The freedom of Americans means a great deal in my family.

DWW; Former Sgt. 1/81 FA (Regular Army)

Son of Former Navy Lt. 42 - 45

Grandson of Former Army Air Corp Col. 42-45 active 45-60 reserve / WW1 Navy Seaman

GGrandson of Navy Capt .............. oh well, enough

[poet]

Thank you. Americans must remember that unless you know the politicians personally, they are , in reality, strangers, therefore, as mom and dad used to tell us, beware of strangers. Most politicians are a result of the "madison avenue" approach. Watch how they promote Condi Rice as we get closer to 2004. IMO, it will be "cooked" rice.8>)

FReegards

John

[poet]

"Didn't I hear a rumor about "innocent until proven guilty"? What's that all about?"

That is only an admonition by a judge in a court of law. If one or two people make a complaint to the police about you, then the police are obligated to place you under arrest and you must subsequently prove your innocence. This is the danger of a nation of spies, because people will report someone they don't like and even if they are cleared, their names will remain in a data base.

[elephantlips]

We are at war. It's that simple and that complex. When, if ever, in time of war, did the normal rules apply? Just because we are still in our country doesn't mean we aren't at war. In time of war people kill. But killing is against the law, what would you suggest we do? As I said before, things have changed. If you cannot see that, then there is nothing I or anyone can tell you.

[FITZ]

I said you can't have freedom without security and you can't have liberty without safety.

Freedom is security and liberty is safety. You can't have freedom or liberty when the government gets huge. We need limited government, it should protect us from foreign invasions but it should leave us alone.

[WIMom]

A message from Jim Robinson regarding the fundraiser.

[sneakypete]

That is only an admonition by a judge in a court of law.

I understand all this,but that ain't the way it's supposed to work. The gooberment is supposed to have actual evidence of your wrongdoing before they deny you your liberty.

[Texasforever]

Ben Franklin was what we now call a socialist. He was fervently against private property rights. Old Ben is NOT a real good guy for conservatives to be quoting.

[FITZ]

Just like I said in a earlier post,the 80% crowd care nothing about freedom,only about them personally feeling "safe".

We were "safe" before we broke away from England and became independent. We were paying a lot less taxes then than we're willing to pay now it seems ---I guess Americans were different back then.

[poet]

I hear you. Difference from perception and reality for many people.

FReegards

[dalereed]

I'm not willing to give one bit of freedom for safety. I've spent my entire life taking risks in order to gain time, as time is the only commodity that isn't replaceable, once spent it is lost forever. If I consider my chance of getting hurt or killed is less than 50% and the time savings is considerable, I take the risk. No one is irreplacable and we're all going to die sometime so you might as well get as much living out of every minute that you have and quit worrying about dying.

[poet]

"The Patriot Act has sunset clauses contained in its legislation."

Section 802 has no sunset provision while the sections preceding have a four year sunset.

"The current lifting of certain restrictions on the FBI and CIA, should be welcomed by all American's."

Are you speaking of the same fbi who just had an agent sent to prision for aiding and abetting the whitey bulger mob?

Are you speaking of the same fbi who had a spy in their ranks for 20+ years?

Are you speaking of the same fbi who killed a woman with a child in her arms as she stood at the door of her home at Ruby Ridge?

Are you speaking of the same fbi who burned 70+ men. women and children to death at Waco?

Are you speaking of the same fbi who just admitted they screwed up on their computer system?

And let's not forget Aldrich Ames of the cia.

Are these the people you say we should give more power to and be thankful?

I think not!

FReegards

[joanie-f]

Thanks for the flag, Mike.  It’s heavy heart time.

Four in five Americans would give up some freedom for more security…More than 70 percent are in favor of requiring U.S. citizens to carry identification cards with fingerprints, and 77 percent believe all Americans should have smallpox vaccinations..

I’m not surprised at any of this, considering the fact that (according to a non-scientific joanie-f poll, the results of which are arrived at through observation of, and conversation with, fellow Americans) an overwhelming majority of Americans can’t even tell you how many Constitutional amendments there are.  Or tell you the content of more than one or two of them.  Or recite even a portion of the preamble.  Or tell you who their congressman is.  Or name the decade in which the Civil War occurred.  Or tell you who the enemy was in World War I.

Our Revolution served as the cornerstone for our republic form of government, based on an unyielding belief in the sanctity of human life and individual liberty.  The civilization which grew out of the faith, and bloodshed, and courage, and resolve, and vision that was embodied in that Revolution was once the most moral, prosperous, ‘civilized’ nation on earth.  We were once pretty much of one mind as regards the importance of individual liberty in maintaining that national morality and prosperity.  And therein lay our strength – our unified national resolve: liberty at any cost.

It now appears that liberty (or at least a significant portion of each individual’s) may be bartered on a whim.  Why then all the bloodshed two hundred-plus years ago?  No whim was that.  How did this republic mold its once unique and unsurpassed national character?  By meekly handing over just a little bit more of our freedom each time an enemy blustered – so that the government (that dragon that our Founders so carefully sought (through bloody battle, and careful deliberation) to keep constrained) could protect us from others who would steal those same liberties?  Was there ever a dichotomy of a more perilous sort?

Two hundred-plus years, accompanied by material wealth and affluence and (late arriving on the scene, but loaded for bear) concomitant leftist cradle-to-grave indoctrination by the public education system and the mainstream media has brought us to this sorrowful  place we’re at.  A populace that values creature comforts more than freedom.  That prefers to rely on media/literary/political experts to do their thinking for them, rather than putting their own brain cells into personal intuitive/creative/analytical drive.  Fertile ground for an insidious, liberty-thieving indoctrination/propaganda machine if there ever was any.

Scientists involved in the poll said they were not surprised many Americans remain fearful after Sept. 11.

Fear, accompanied by ignorance, has probably enslaved more people (either through violent overthrow or gradual encroachment) over the history of mankind than any other fatal combination.

The stage is set.  Bring on the chains (one small link at a time might be best, so that there’s not a lot of noise or commotion or notice in the process….).

[During World War II] The US government asked of americans many sacrifices and their support. Our current government has done none of these things, all it has wanted is to spy on americans in secret and to ignore the Constitution in the name of security....gunshy

Your memories of Civil Defense wardens, detention camps, rationing, and the propaganda about keeping security are very poignant, gunshy.  I was born after the war, but I (and I believe most others on this forum) have learned second-hand what you and your contemporaries witnessed firsthand.  It’s those people who haven’t taken the time to examine their roots, and the offshoots that grew out from them over the past two-plus centuries, who have no mental image to conjure up, such as the one you have described, whenever our government speaks nobly of abrogating our liberties for the sake of preserving them.

It's well worn, but needs, more than ever before, to be shouted from the rooftops:

May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen....Samuel Adams

~ joanie

[homeschool mama]

**I am not suggesting that men are not concerned with their families. I am sayiong that men have always been and will continue to be less risk averse than women. Men have always been the promary hunters and killers while women have always been the nurturers. The protective instinct of the mother lends it self to be more security conscious than men. While the men would rather take chances, which by definition, is not "secure", and lends itself to be more freedom oriented.**

Thank you for explaining further, WT. I appreciate the time you took. Forgive me for jumping to conclusions on what you meant. :o)

[First_Salute]

Mark Levin was quoted by Rush, today, that he was having difficulty finding the slippery slope" inferred by the new Department of LawyerLand Job Security ("I take license"); to which I would paraphrase you, that Mr. Mark forgot the next chain link connecting him to the gravitational pull extra-Constitutional space.

[First_Salute]

Thank you.