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To: Rockiesrider
Re: that "riceburner" slam: You do understand that if I'm on my Kawasaki GPz and you're on any Harley you'll only ever see my tailights while there's no chance that I'll see yours until I turn the engine off.

Relativly poor (even miserable) performance is the price Harley pays for using an obsolete twin V design for the sake of getting that nice popping exhaust note that everyone associates with a bad bike.

23 posted on 06/09/2002 7:27:48 AM PDT by PUGACHEV
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To: PUGACHEV
Have you ever noticed that the overwhelming majority of the people who run Harleys into the ground never talk from experience, having never owned one?
24 posted on 06/09/2002 7:38:46 AM PDT by BraveMan
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To: PUGACHEV
Re: that "riceburner" slam: You do understand that if I'm on my Kawasaki GPz and you're on any Harley you'll only ever see my tailights while there's no chance that I'll see yours until I turn the engine off.

Relativly poor (even miserable) performance is the price Harley pays for using an obsolete twin V design for the sake of getting that nice popping exhaust note that everyone associates with a bad bike.

Ah, the "riceburner" mystique! A truly awful thing, that - the most technically advanced and capable machines that a regular working stiff might actually be able to afford happen to be (primarily) designed in Japan. Shameful. Even the fact that a slew of them are built (or at least assembled) here in the states doesn't mitigate the shame. Seriously, though, the slams in each direction, IMHO, are sometimes way off the mark, and sometimes right on target. Harleys used to have a certain "reputation" for being rolling junkheaps; but the quality transformation they've undergone is phenomenal. One of the biggest problems I've seen is that the Motor Company has pursued profit (ain't nothin' wrong with making the bucks, mind you) on the backs of those devotees who kept a faltering operation alive (albeit on life support) through the lean times - they'd buy those clunkers no matter what problems they could expect or what better machines were offered by others, and it was this dedicated core group who truly helped save H-D. But the thanks they got later was to have the machines priced so outrageously that these folks couldn't afford them, or at least complete with RUB's whose pockets fairly bulged with cash. That's a real shame. The criticism leveled at Japanese machines hits home on a couple of points, too - the resale value is much worse than H-D's in general, the frequent resyling means decreased parts interchangeability (and higher replacement costs), and the early attempt to make machines that were kinda "like" Harleys was pretty pathetic. Now, resale values are market-driven, of course, but when a guy or gal can buy a big ticket item for less than MSRP, I count that as a very GOOD thing, personally. And after the first and second iterations of Harley-like knockoffs, the Japanese produced bikes that for all intents and purposes were much, much better than the Milwaukee products, and priced much lower, to boot. It wasn't until the Porsche-assisted introduction of the V-ROD that H-D brought a bike to the marketplace that was the equal of the latest generation of Japanese cruisers. JMHO.

30 posted on 06/09/2002 7:56:54 AM PDT by MarineDad
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To: PUGACHEV
Relativly poor (even miserable) performance is the price Harley pays for using an obsolete twin V design for the sake of getting that nice popping exhaust note that everyone associates with a bad bike.

What's true is true. Whatever else is true of HD's-- they're cool, they give you instant access to a (middle aged) community of riders, they hold their value well-- they're just slow, heavy, and unreliable bikes.

The original article might better be called, "How to buy and ride a motorcycle when you don't know anything about them and are frightened to the bone of riding them." Which is fine-- fear is a healthy response to motorcycling. However, you can a much better bike than a Sportster for $8k (!). And, I'm one of the experienced riders who thinks that the MSF safety course is a waste of time and money. If your state allows you easily to get your license without taking that thing, don't take it. Well, I should provide a qualification: if you find yourself frustrated with fundamental activities, like turns or operating the controls, after an initial get acquainted period, you might think about it. Or, if you're like this author and can't get up the nerve to ride at boulevard speeds after two months of riding then you need some help.

However, if you possess reasonable physical coordination, can operate the controls smoothly after a short acquaintance period, and are serious about teaching yourself, then that's what you should do. Buy a book, the MSF book is good. Start in a parking lot and on slow streets. Then just keep riding.

Otherwise, prepare to stand around for hours and hours in a hot parking lot. Hear overzealous instructors shout about how to pull the brake and clutch at the same time for about fifty minutes before you're allowed-- on a motorcycle with the engine off-- to try it yourself. Spend ten hours of stultifyingly boring time before you have the opportunity to ride a moped-like 125cc bike around orange cones in a parking lot at 15 miles an hour. Listen to the instructor shout at you with all the intensity of someone who caught you trying to to fly an F-16 at an airshow while you putter that little bike around in demoralizing ovals. Then think of all the better things you could be doing on a nice summer weekend. Then think about the $100 bucks you've kissed goodbye.

I speak as an experienced rider with no accidents in many years of riding, and someone who stupidly took that course years ago when I had already had a good deal of experience riding with a learner's permit. Be forewarned...

31 posted on 06/09/2002 8:01:53 AM PDT by Timm
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To: PUGACHEV
Re: that "riceburner" slam: You do understand that if I'm on my Kawasaki GPz and you're on any Harley you'll only ever see my tailights while there's no chance that I'll see yours until I turn the engine off.

In my experience, Harley riders are far far more polite and safe out there on the road ways when you compare them to those that ride riceburners. For that reason alone, I would rather buy a Harley and strive to live up to their responsible behavior. The tone and topic of your comment only highlights the dangerous mentality of the rice burner crowd.

35 posted on 06/09/2002 8:13:51 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: PUGACHEV
You do understand that if I'm on my Kawasaki GPz and you're on any Harley you'll only ever see my tailights while there's no chance that I'll see yours until I turn the engine off.

Maybe,maybe not. Either way,it doesn't matter. At the end of the day you will still have a Jap bike,and I'll have a Harley.

42 posted on 06/09/2002 8:21:42 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: PUGACHEV
You do understand that if I'm on my Kawasaki GPz and you're on any Harley you'll only ever see my tailights while there's no chance that I'll see yours until I turn the engine off.

Relativly poor (even miserable) performance is the price Harley pays for using an obsolete twin V design for the sake of getting that nice popping exhaust note that everyone associates with a bad bike.

It seems you've never had the pleasurable experience of owning, perhaps even riding, a Harley.

I have a Honda ST1100 that will take me to 130mph in a few seconds. I also have a Harley Fat Boy that tells me to "f off" if I even consider taking her over 75.

I love 'em both. The ST gets many more miles. The Harley gets many more rides. Different bikes for different fun.

65 posted on 06/09/2002 10:13:59 AM PDT by Hank Rearden
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