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A SICKING TALE OF THE UNION MENTALITY AT WORK
Neil Boortz Website ^ | today | Neil Boortz

Posted on 06/06/2002 5:39:12 AM PDT by Rodney King

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To: cascademountaineer
Naw, just trying to mimic union quality.
101 posted on 06/06/2002 9:29:37 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: perotista
I ask you (and the others here)point blank: do you want to pay them a living wage (either through government regulations or union bullying), or do you want to pay higher taxes to supplement their income? There's really no inbetween here, except to let them starve on the streets.

Nonsense. But let's try it. Let's see if people starve in the streets. C'mon, I'm calling your bluff, leftie.

They won't. Unless you're a retarded pinhead, or crippled, you can support yourself in the USA if you can support yourself anywhere. Period.

Abolish government subsidies of unions; let's see how long those goons would last - about 10 minutes given a competitive environment. Abolish the minimum wage; I have employees making minimum wage who aren't worth it - they almost needed retraining to tie their damn shoes! I'm just betting I can educate them to a profitable level sometime before we go broke. If not, they're out on their ass . . . maybe they'll starve to death in your world, huh?

I used to wonder where Perot found all those feebs to vote for him. I don't anymore.

102 posted on 06/06/2002 9:29:58 AM PDT by Hank Rearden
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To: Cuttnhorse
Couldnt.

Yes, the contraction of could not. Spelled correctly btw. My spellcheck isnt taking a day off, though I do make the occasional typo, I will admit tha, everyone does.

I just find it interesting that Mr. Boortz launches off on a self indulgent rant about others incompetence when he couldnt even do the most basic task taught to most amateur first year journalism students - Spellcheck your work before going to publish.

Necvada,

Ive heard of that state, I think its right next to Mane.

He who lives in glass houses...ah...nevermind.

103 posted on 06/06/2002 9:30:59 AM PDT by cascademountaineer
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To: Labyrinthos
With reference to your #58, we're talking about hi-tech items, not the things produced by semi-skilled union lackeys. Why would an engineer want to work in construction? If people don't buy these expensive hi-tech items, what do the engineers/tech people produce?
104 posted on 06/06/2002 9:31:53 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: perotista
perotista member since June 4th, 2002

105 posted on 06/06/2002 10:00:17 AM PDT by weikel
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To: perotista
You can avoid starvation on minimum wage plz nobody starves in America not even the unemployed. Minimum wage causes unemployment when it is above the equilibrium wage for a job sector.
106 posted on 06/06/2002 10:02:45 AM PDT by weikel
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To: Rodney King
Why would anyone be surprised at this?

Unions exist to protect people with non-transferable job skills.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Jamais reculez á tyrannie un pouce!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! Never give an inch to tyranny!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

107 posted on 06/06/2002 10:09:24 AM PDT by LonePalm
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To: Chemist_Geek;Aria
Australia's definitely out.

While not quite as socialist as France or Sweden, they are almost the equal of Britain.

My Australian wife "fled" Australia when we got married 22 years ago. At the time, I too thought (and had heard) the same thing .. that Australia was like America in the 50's .. and I had thought that we would live there. She quickly disabused me (or abused me, depending on how you look at it) of those notions and told me in no uncertain terms that Australia was right out.

108 posted on 06/06/2002 10:11:43 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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To: perotista
Presuming that you don't want people starving to death, I ask you (and the others here)point blank: do you want to pay them a living wage (either through government regulations or union bullying), or do you want to pay higher taxes to supplement their income? There's really no inbetween here, except to let them starve on the streets. Is that your solution?

First off, welcome to FR!

No one wants people starving to death.

That said, let's get on to the other stuff. The whole concept of a "living wage" is bogus. Does that mean the amount of money required to support one person living in a rooming house, buying second hand clothes, eating cheaply, abd getting their entertainment at the public library? Or is it someone staying at home, with 5 kids, in plush housing, with cable TV, buying $100 tennies, etc.?

The term "living wage" is meaningless.

So no, I don't want to support the poor through either unions or government regulation or the current ludicrous system of onerous taxation and wastrel agencies. I want to do it through families and neighbors helping each other, and then private charity.

This would put the (appropriate) stigma back into behaviors such as choosing not to work, having bastards you can't support, dropping out of school, etc.

Americans are the most generous people in the world. No one would starve except those who wanted to.

109 posted on 06/06/2002 10:12:25 AM PDT by jimt
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To: Chemist_Geek;Aria
Oh, and if you think the union problem is bad here, try Australia. You can always tell when it's getting close to Christmas or some other holiday in Australia: airline/train/bus unions go on strike about a month beforehand, believing that they have the management over a barrel because of loss of business during those busy times if they strike. Most of the time, it works.

Although, I am happy to say, from talking to my brother-in-law who is a high mucky-muck in the miner's union, union membership is dropping fast.

I weep crocodile tears for him whenever he whines about it.

110 posted on 06/06/2002 10:20:35 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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To: 1Old Pro
I like unions about as much as the author. It fosters non-productive, lazy, high cost, useless workers.

The image of gazillionaire union baseball players comes to mind.

111 posted on 06/06/2002 10:20:38 AM PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: Cuttnhorse
Since when did Chemists learn how to mop floors??

I learned during undergraduate at a different university, where the unionized janitorial staff refused to go into the labs...

112 posted on 06/06/2002 10:31:48 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek
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Comment #113 Removed by Moderator

To: perotista
"...through gov regulations which are fair to both sides?"

Do you honestly think before you write? Is it probable that you don't see the complete lack of logic in a statement such as this?

What is fair is what the market will bear. I know my talents, my strengths and my weaknesses, and what I need to provide for my family. If I am willing to take a job for $10 an hour and the boss is willing to pay me $10 an hour to do that job, then that should be the end of it. That $10 is fair to me, whether or not some legislator and union boss thinks that the pay should be $20/hour.

Right to work means just that ... my right is to be able to work for whatever I am willing to accept and the manager is willing to pay me.

"Living wage" indeed. If necessary, I will be the first to admit that I spend my money on myself and my family for a lot more than just basic food, clothing, and shelter ... and I am d@mn unapologetic for it.

114 posted on 06/06/2002 10:46:35 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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To: Chemist_Geek
Chemists all know how to mop floors...it's just that some of the stuff they spill are a little tough on mops.
115 posted on 06/06/2002 10:56:38 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: perotista
I'm not talking so much about union "goons" as I am the right to "sister strikes", which are currently illegal. That was the most powerful tool the unions really had. And I'm not certain about how Constitutional that regulation is. Seems to me that if the workers in another industry CHOOSE to strike in sympathy with Industry #1, it's their right to do so, isn't it? Why should that be illegal?

Personally, I figure that people ought to have the right to strike if it suits them. I also figure that employers have the right to hire replacements and that poeple ought to have the right to represent themselves (as in 'right to work', or 'open shop'). I was in a union for 11 years and I will tell you that I don't like someone other than my employer telling me how much I should produce or whether I can show up to work or not. That's between me and the employer.

While in theory I believe the government should butt completely "out", I can see, pragmatically, that could lead to hard times for a lot of folks before the issue of "fair wage" is settled, so, why not just settle this pull-and-tug process through gov regulations which are fair to both sides?

Because government regulations won't be fair to both sides. If they make wages higher than the work is worth, the job will disappear. You're either going to hurt one side or the other and most likely, both when the business closes.

And, of course, when they decide that a burger flipper's wage needs to be what they now pay a foundry worker, the foundry workers are gonna be P.O.ed. I mean, it takes a little more skill to work in a foundry than it does to flip burgers (not to mention the added dangers of molten metal) so I would suspect that they will want a raise to keep them sufficiently paid vs. their skill level in comparison to the wages of the burger flipper. Otherwise, why work in a dirty, dangerous foundry?

Furthermore, all this upward wage adjustment will make products more expensive. Prices will rise and the "living wage" will no longer be adequate. So, we start the inflationary cycle over and over again until somebody finally decides that the living wage isn't such a good idea.

Lets take the local McDonalds for example. Profit margins are pretty tight in the fast food business, typically less than 2%. Wages are a large portion of the cost of a happy meal. If wages are raised from $6 to, say, $8, the price of food will rise accordingly. I don't know about you, but I am not really willing to pay an extra buck or two for some already over-priced lousy food.

The correct way to set wages is to let the market decide - the worker and the employer can agree to a set fee for service.

"What is a fair wage" would, IMHO, be an issue for our elected representatives to decide. Making an intelligent and workable decision would take a bit of study. And you have to provide protections for the companies as well, to avoid the kind of ludicrous horror stories that have been noted in this thread.

I don't beleive that our elected officials are capable of setting a fair wage, particularly since they seem to be clueless about the laws of supply and demand in the first place. I venture to say that they will simply try to set wages in such a way as to buy the most votes.

The immigrant and illegal alien issue has been raised a couple of times. I agree, that's a HUGE part of the problem. Other "liberal" nations have laws which unashamedly grant citizens "first pick" on jobs. You can't enter the country without a job, and you can't take a job for which a citizen of that country is qualified.

The problem with the illegal alien situation is that they often work at below minimum wages, under the table. Since they already aren't following the law, they are almost certain to avoid following any new laws. This is especially true if new legislation prices US jobs above the market value of these jobs.

116 posted on 06/06/2002 10:57:31 AM PDT by meyer
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To: Palmetto
Ahhh. Great example. Even a flaming socialist like Henry eventually bends to the will of free-market capitalism. How do you think he accomplished what he accomplished? By paying his wrench-toting monkeys $80k/yr? Or perhaps by manufacturing innovation that drove down the prices of his autos, making them affordable not just for his workers, but for middle-class Americans everywhere? He could not have revolutionalized the auto industry and the manufacturing sector in general if he had to charge more for the Model T because his unskilled work force was making princly wages. Capitalism at its finest.

Actually, the $5/day wage was created to keep guys from leaving because the grind of the line, which was constantly being speeded up, was making them quit in droves. Ford eventually saw that it was cheaper to pay them more than to keep training them, then lose them to a place with a more gentle pace. And once the depression hit, the wage was rolled back. Meanwhile, Ford was forced to keep cutting the price of the T because nobody wanted it anymore. They wanted cars like GM was building, with clever innovations like self-starters and gas gauges and hydraulic brakes and shock absorbers. It wasn't until Ford couldn't give them away that he developed the Model A. Meanwhile, Ford became notorious as the worst place in Detroit to work for, with an army of goons, "The Service Department," under Harry Bennett spying on union organizers and beating up anyone who dared to so much as wear a union pin. There was a term, "Fordization of the face," which referred to talking without moving your lips, so that Bennett's goons wouldn't catch you. Look up "The Battle of the Overpass" and see what that "flaming socialist" ordered done.

Yeah, things have gotten out of hand, but my grandfather told me stories about when it was the other way around, before the unions. "We were nothing," he said. There's plenty of black marks on both sides. The Ludlow Massacre and the Herrin Massacre, to name two. Somewhere, there needs to be a balance found.
117 posted on 06/06/2002 11:43:19 AM PDT by Heyworth
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To: cascademountaineer
Sorry, but theres just a small bit of irony about it.

In your glass house, you might want to do a bit of research on contractions.

118 posted on 06/06/2002 11:56:33 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Rodney King
one of the best scenes in the Simpsons is during the Radioactive Man movie...

Homer sees some film crew teamsters lounging about and (paraphrasing) says "ooh teamsters...so lazy and surly."

They Homer and the union bums engage in an unspoken contest to see who can lounge the most.

119 posted on 06/06/2002 12:31:04 PM PDT by mr1776
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To: mr1776
How many Teamsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Twelve. You gotta problem with that? Why is the symbol of the Teamsters a horse? It's the only animal that can sleep standing up.
120 posted on 06/06/2002 12:34:19 PM PDT by Heyworth
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