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The Biological Case Against Race
American Outlook, publication of the Hudson Institute ^ | Spring 2002 | Joseph L. Graves Jr.

Posted on 06/04/2002 5:24:31 PM PDT by cornelis

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To: Poohbah
Are there any IQ tests that do not require some sort of basic cultural awareness on the test-taker's part?

Yep, the The Biology “g”.

201 posted on 06/04/2002 9:52:51 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: tallhappy
I need proof on that one...please.
202 posted on 06/04/2002 9:53:42 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Those IQ tests floating around FR last fall didn't seem to have any cultural bias like the ACT or SAT or LSAT or GMAT or GRE etc. They were more about arithmetic and discerning differences in patterns whether visual or written word.
203 posted on 06/04/2002 9:59:50 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: ConsistentLibertarian
Let's put the same hypothesis to work to explain the surprising lack of genetic vatriation between humans and apes.

There is also the same difference between chimps and mice. Which means that genetic variation does not prove very much. One of the discoveries of the genome project was that some 95% of DNA is not part of a gene. These comparisons were made only with respect to genes, not with respect to the rest of the DNA so they are but a small part of what makes an organism. We have known for a while that the DNA which was not in genes played an important role in development of an organism, however we did not realize how large a part of the genome it was. So it seems that evolutionists have been proven wrong again by real scientists. They should be used to it by now.

204 posted on 06/04/2002 10:06:41 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: cornelis
So I geuss its purely coincidental that the NBA is nearly all black.
205 posted on 06/04/2002 10:35:47 PM PDT by weikel
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To: Mortin Sult
No. The absense of biological differences sufficient to distinguish two completely distinct and separate races does not imply the absense of statistically significant biological differences and does not imply that any such discernable differences are essentially cultural.

There clearly are racial differences, as groups, that are genetic, and not just cosmetic ones. Individually, it's one person at a time.

But myself and several others have already said that, six ways from Sunday. So I guess I should start using as an example the lower reading comprehension level of the politically correct crowd.

206 posted on 06/04/2002 10:47:59 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
Your comment translates thus: "I am rational, you are emotional.

No. It does not translate to that. It is that. No translation necessary.

On this issue you are saying the Earth is the center of the universe.

It saddens me to see such irrationality and defensiveness on something so straighforward.

207 posted on 06/04/2002 10:56:46 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: wardaddy
I need proof on that one...please.

On what?

Anyhow, you bozos try one's patience.

Like talking to dyed in the wool Clintonites.

I got your proof right here, Delbert.

208 posted on 06/04/2002 10:58:30 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: Pushi
I don't think you are correct.

On what?

Rest assured, I am correct.

209 posted on 06/04/2002 11:00:45 PM PDT by tallhappy
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OK.

If race has a biological basis, please list all the races and the specific genes and traits defining the races.

Otherwise do us and your overtaxed miniscule gray matter all a favor and shut your ignorant blathering babbling boring mouths.

That will be all.

Best fishes all. Look forward to your tables with the info you of xourse can provide.

210 posted on 06/04/2002 11:05:41 PM PDT by tallhappy
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Comment #211 Removed by Moderator

To: Poohbah
On blacks having up to 20% higher testosterone levels in college: I wonder how many of this pool of blacks are in college due to the soul...er..sole fact that they were recruited into sports? This might prove a sociological difference and possibly not a genetic difference. Also...did anyone read the Bell Curve? It was very fascinating. But, in the end, we are all made in the image of God regardless of whether this issue comes down to socialization, environment, genetics or some combo.
212 posted on 06/04/2002 11:06:56 PM PDT by trevorjohnson
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To: cornelis
Just because the human races are not as biologically distinct as species doesn't mean that there are no biological differences, as a statistical group.

Just because there are examples of dominance in a sport that is apparently not due to biology (Russian chess) doesn't mean that it never happens (West African sprinters).

Just because some racial differences (skin color, eye shape, average size, ...) are cosmetic doesn't mean that all racial differences are cosmetic.

Just because this is a conservative forum doesn't mean there aren't some participants here trapped in Politically Correct thinking.

Just because I've read two articles by Mr. Graves today doesn't mean I ever want to read another word of his.

213 posted on 06/04/2002 11:07:52 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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To: ThePythonicCow
There clearly are racial differences, as groups, that are genetic, and not just cosmetic ones

Then list them.

214 posted on 06/04/2002 11:07:55 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: wcbtinman
That there are biological differences between the races is easy to determine by simply observing your neighbors.

List the biological differences you refer to.

215 posted on 06/04/2002 11:08:53 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: Myrddin
Here is a strange question: If blacks have higher testosterone levels (10-20% higher) and blacks committ over 50% of the violent crimes...and higher testosterone is linked to higher propensities to crime...should they be punished less? These statisitcs are fascinating, if they are correct...but what implications can we draw for society from them? And what is the solution to "racial inequities" and "racial inequalities" if these inequalities are rooted in biology and not oppressive power structures?
216 posted on 06/04/2002 11:13:58 PM PDT by trevorjohnson
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Comment #217 Removed by Moderator

To: weikel
So I geuss its purely coincidental that the NBA is nearly all black.

Coincidental? No, it's cultural.

218 posted on 06/04/2002 11:27:44 PM PDT by edsheppa
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Comment #219 Removed by Moderator

To: tallhappy
Intentionally overstating, as if sometimes slight differences were black and white:
  1. White men can't jump (trust me on this one, I know).
  2. I'd sooner have a Turk than a Frenchman beside me in battle.
  3. West African for sprints, East African for marathons.
  4. I'd sooner eat at a French restaurant than a Turkisk restaurant, and either beats British.
These are all group distinctions. I'd sooner have a black than a white for my basketball team, right until the moment that Larry Bird and Clarence Thomas show up, then its sorry, Clarence, back to the Supreme Court you go (and thank God you're there).

My presumption is that in all manner of human endeavors, there are measurable differences, by race, age, gender, and just about any other classification. None of which does me any good when I'm hiring -- then it's the best person for the position in question, of what ever stripe. Group statistical differences are useless in sorting out job candidates, unless perhaps one has to deal in bulk with thousands or millions at a time (as applies in the case of our airport screeners, not that the liberal powers that be would admit it). The P.C. crowd makes it rough on people who point this out. It makes it difficult for people to even be honest with themselves on this subject.

An essential part of the liberal ideology is that we all deserve the same result, that differences in outcome are signs of social, cultural, racial or economic bias that should be corrected, and that we can build heaven on earth. We're not all equal. We're different, however you slice us. I can code better, sing worse, and play worse basketball than perhaps anyone on this thread. And short of my forgetting how to code (program computers) there ain't a damn thing anyone here can do about any of this. There is a higher authority -- it is our destiny and responsibility to each live our lives as best we can. Saying that manifest differences in outcome (more of this race is succeeding in some way than another) are due to cultural bias is a dangerous sign of the prejudice of reduced expectations, and an invitation to more federal and world centralization of power to correct such errors of human planning. Only the tyrants of the world benefit from such excessive centralization of power.

God grants us equality of opportunity, to reach for our own best, to strive to understand and act in harmony with the order of the universe. The only equality of outcome is lowest common denominator for all -- which puts us all in prison or the gas chamber last I looked.

Humans don't get to build heaven -- we get to search for it.

220 posted on 06/04/2002 11:52:55 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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