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The Biological Case Against Race
American Outlook, publication of the Hudson Institute ^ | Spring 2002 | Joseph L. Graves Jr.

Posted on 06/04/2002 5:24:31 PM PDT by cornelis

click here to read article


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Typos mine.
1 posted on 06/04/2002 5:24:32 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: *crevo_list
bump
2 posted on 06/04/2002 5:25:59 PM PDT by JediGirl
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To: cornelis
bttt for future reading.
3 posted on 06/04/2002 5:29:26 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: PatrickHenry;RadioAstronomer;jennyp;AndrewC;VadeRetro;gore3000;ConsistentLibertarian;general_re...
bump (hope i got most of y'all)
4 posted on 06/04/2002 5:29:57 PM PDT by JediGirl
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To: JediGirl
Oh, cut that out!

:^ 0 Ice cream everybody!!!!!

5 posted on 06/04/2002 5:32:11 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: cornelis
so....black men aren't really better endowed?
6 posted on 06/04/2002 5:34:07 PM PDT by Demosthenes
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To: cornelis
Thanks for the article. I was especially interested to read how theories of race arrived rather suddenly in the 19th century. Good example of how science itself is determined by history and culture.

I was brought up in the "post-racist" world, and all my education, and those whom I looked up to, taught that there is no real difference based on color. I know this sounds frightful, but over the years I have come to feel that there are real differences between the races. I have based this on experience, and travel, and learning to recongise and respect difference. It is hard to say if these differences are the result of culture or race.

One consequence of modern reproductive technologies is that we will be able to determine if genetic material, on its own, can determine individual characteristics. Up until now, the only studies done on "acquired vs inherited" characteristics, have been done on identical twins seperated a birth (limited and unreliable studies.)

7 posted on 06/04/2002 5:37:36 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: cornelis
To summarize: Bla bla bla Lysenkoism bla bla bla nonsense data bla bla bla egalitarianism bla bla bla equality bla bla bla submission bla bla bla give more bla bla bla surrender it's hopeless bla bla bla just give more money bla bla bla and then die already.

BTW - did you know that chimps and humans differ in their DNA by only 1.5%? We're about 98.5% identical! So, I guess we're really just the same as chimps! And we're really just the same as the gorillas and the spider monkeys as well. Heck, we're probably only about %5 different from a shark! We should make sharks citizens! Oh, wait, we already have lawyers, that's right.

What a seriously rank load of hogwash. I'm no genetic scientist but I can look at Africa and see just what happens when the Europeans who built cities on that continent leave those cities behind to the natives. Hmmm, some peoples build cities, some peoples tear them down. No, no difference between them at all. Then I look here at formerly great cities like Detroit, populated with people who have been American citizens for generations. Hmmm. What do these examples have in common?

This is a very serious case of the Emperor having no clothes whatsoever.

8 posted on 06/04/2002 5:42:31 PM PDT by Billy_bob_bob
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To: BlackVeil
It is hard to say if these differences are the result of culture or race.

Culture and individual variation are the major determinants of behavior. Race is a strong self-association factor -- we grow up with our own race, we tend to hand around with our own race, hence cultural identity tends to break along racial groupings.

9 posted on 06/04/2002 5:42:47 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Demosthenes
so . . . black men really aren't black?
10 posted on 06/04/2002 5:44:10 PM PDT by ThinkLikeWaterAndReeds
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: BlackVeil
I know this sounds frightful, but over the years I have come to feel that there are real differences between the races.

There ARE real differences, and there's nothing frightful about speaking the truth. Acknowledging that there are differences does not make one a "racist" any more than acknowledging that the differences between men and women aren't just "social constructs" makes one a "sexist". Some of the differences make people of different races generally better at/worse at specific functions of modern life, but there are such huge variations within each race, that this does not provide justification for different treatment of people of different races. It does, however, provide nullification of the concept that unequal results are necessarily the result of "discrimination" -- a concept which remains quite popular in our legal system.

12 posted on 06/04/2002 5:49:23 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: cornelis
Scientists now know that this was a false proposition, both at the level of the physical features and of the genes that produce them.

Scientists don't "know" any such thing! This is merely wishful thinking - something that the Hudson Institute specializes in.

First, any student anatomist can identify a person's race by a variety of physical features. Forensic pathologists can often identify a person's race by a single tooth or a few bones.

Second, when it comes to genes, it is much more honest to say that based on the current state of knowledge scientists cannot identify a person's race by analyzing his genes. To point out that there is very little genetic diversity between humans of all races does not mean there aren't meaningful differences between the races. Sometimes, a single genetic defect can make a HUGE difference in a person's wellbeing. Or, look at it this way: Chimps and humans share over 98% of their genetic makeup. Clearly, that 2% makes a LOT of difference.

What bothers me most about this pseudo-scientific hokum that tries to say there are no differences between the races is that it begs the question: Why the disparity in behavior and outcomes? If we are all the same, then why do blacks - 13% of the population - make up only 2% of corporate executives and commit 50% of the crime? Why has black student achievement lagged that of whites at the same rate for nearly 30 years - ever since the government has measured it - despite $billions of government money? If we are all the same - THEN WHITE PEOPLE MUST BE RACIST OPPRESSORS WHO WILL NOT/CANNOT CHANGE. If you were black and believed that the only reason you were not doing as well as whites was because they have been keeping you down for hundreds of years and show no sign of every stopping, how long would YOU put up with this situation?

13 posted on 06/04/2002 5:49:46 PM PDT by Arleigh
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To: JediGirl
From the article:
The core ideological principle that maintains racism is the mistaken belief that
[1] biological races really exist in the human species and that
[2] individual aspects of character and morality can be identified by one's racial ancestry.
I donno ... Most people have always assumed that #1 is true, but I never believed in #2. I don't see why the two propositions have to go together.
14 posted on 06/04/2002 5:51:29 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: GovernmentShrinker
An excellent summary.

I would put forth that most "racial" variations of behavior are more due to cultural influences than genetic.

15 posted on 06/04/2002 5:52:45 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
I would put forth that most "racial" variations of behavior are more due to cultural influences than genetic.

LOL, what a coincidence! That's what the author claims in his book! You are a whiz.

16 posted on 06/04/2002 5:59:51 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: Poohbah
I would put forth that most "racial" variations of behavior are more due to cultural influences than genetic.

Well, you would be wrong.

Twin studies show that genetics accounts for 97% of variability in fingerprints (duh!); 70% of IQ, 50% of sexual behavior, 50% of criminal activity and 40% of social attitudes.

Average IQ level of blacks is 15 points lower than whites. Average testosterone levels are 10-20% higher in college-age black males than whites. IQ and testosterone levels are key ingredients in behavior among young males.

17 posted on 06/04/2002 6:00:21 PM PDT by Arleigh
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To: GovernmentShrinker
"there are differences ... but there are such huge variations within each race, that this does not provide justification for different treatment ... It does, however, provide nullification of the concept that unequal results are necessarily the result of "discrimination" ...

I agree completely. It isn't about despising anyone. In fact many racial/or cultural characteristics are about being adjusted to ones way of life and environment. But I think that it should make Western law-givers, in aid agencies and the UN etc., a bit less confident about telling various nations that they should get rid of this or that "repressive" social restriction. Maybe they should, but it is up to them to work it out. And maybe they shouldn't, because sometimes things which appear harsh to us in fact serve a useful function within a different society.

18 posted on 06/04/2002 6:01:44 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil
Yes, anyone who is not totally politically correct knows that the differences between the races are very real (i.e. white men really can't jump). The difference between human DNA and that of a chimpanzee is only on the order of 1%, yet no one expects chimps to get PhDs. Before anyone brands this racist thinking (versus racial thinking), you have to ask what the consequences of this information should be.

While there are no Shaqs from the Phillipines and no Einsteins from South Africa, there are Thomas Sowells and Michelle Kwans and multitudes of gifted people of all colors who can only be sorted through the give and take of free societies. And who decides what is smart or athletic, the criteria change continuously? The oldest bloodlines come out of Africa, according to Cavalli Sforza (who is big in the anti-race debate). Yet, given that datum how stupid could Shaq be making as much in a year as most make in a few lifetimes?

So, the question is not whether there are differences, but what you would do about it if there were. And bluntly, you'd do nothing but let people attain their own levels. So, I believe the above article is a feel-good sham, but the truth wouldn't change anything anyway, we all have to get up in the morning and go to work. I just wish I worked for the Lakers.

19 posted on 06/04/2002 6:02:17 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: cornelis
Given that the entirety of his discussion is concerned with genetic differences and that very, very few individuals have had their genome mapped, his writings are nothing but speculation, uninformed opinion, and complete bullsh!t. Furthermore, minor genetic differences are easily shown between all major racial groups and especially between certain isolated southern africans and all other groups including most other africans and all caucasian, oriental, and australian subgroups. How can he be ignorant of past studies in his own field?

What a utterly hopeless mess of a book - ten years from now he will have to write a complete retraction.

20 posted on 06/04/2002 6:04:03 PM PDT by balrog666
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