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Andrew Sullivan: WHAT U-TURN?
andrewsullivan.com ^ | 06/04/2002 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 06/03/2002 10:54:03 PM PDT by Pokey78

I know I'll be excoriated as a Bush toady for saying this, but I don't actually get the notion that the Bush administration has done a palpable U-turn on global warming.

Check out this story.

"Last year, the White House described climate change as a serious issue after seeking opinions of the National Academy of Sciences but was undecided about how much of the problem should be blamed on human activities," the Associated Press reports.

This year, in a report to the U.N. no less, the administration argues that "The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability."

Wow. What a change. And no one is claiming that the Bush administration has shifted actual policy. It's also a grotesque distortion to say that most conservatives completely rebut the notion of some human effect on global warming. Certainly Bjorn Lomborg acknowledges it.

My own view of this weird little summer story is that it's a major Howell Raines coup. A reporter finds some tiny and insignificant change in the wording of administration policy, and Raines puts it on his front page. Drudge takes the bait and Rush follows.

Chill, guys. It seems to me that the Bush administration has long held the sensible skeptical position (which does not preclude taking human impact on global warming seriously).

The difference between them and Al Gore is that they don't take this as a certainty or buy the notion you have to throw the economy into reverse to prevent it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: andrewsullivanlist; globalwarminghoax
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To: Miss Marple
A careful reading of Bush's statement and your own measured responses support a scientific study of the subject based on facts, not agendas. The politicalization of global warming is both deplorable and ignorant to the extreme.
101 posted on 06/04/2002 6:42:25 AM PDT by Carolinamom
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To: Miss Marple
IIRC, an increase in temperature leads to increased melting of glacier ice, which raises the sea level and leads to flooding of coastal areas. The "enlarged" sea then acts as a mirror, reflecting back more of the sun's rays. Which leads to global cooling and a new ice age.

Or something like that.

Anyhow, some guy who wrote a book called Dying Planet , which I read in college, described the "global warming leads to global cooling" in that fashion (more or less ).

FWIW.

102 posted on 06/04/2002 6:47:16 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
IIRC, an increase in temperature leads to increased melting of glacier ice, which raises the sea level and leads to flooding of coastal areas. The "enlarged" sea then acts as a mirror, reflecting back more of the sun's rays. Which leads to global cooling and a new ice age.

There's also the idea that an increase in temperature leads to increased evaporation from the oceans, which leads to increased cloud cover, which reflects back more of the sun's rays.

I still think some of the increased surface temperatures are caused by many weather stations being located in high pavement, low vegetation areas such as airports, but that's just MY uninformed opinion. ;-)

103 posted on 06/04/2002 6:54:07 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: kaylar
That seems to be similar to what I remember. That, of course, is a theory. Whether it is true or not remains to be seen.

The reverse would also be true...global cooling (an era we left in the late 19th centruy) would then eventually lead to global warming.

It is possible that the climatic variations are cyclical and that man has simply aggravated the situation which was going to occur anyway.

I agree with the President's position, that more studies and reasearch need to be done, but meanwhile we should have policies and technology which let us adapt if the situation worsens. Outlawing hairspray and automobiles isn't going to reverse a trend which may have been instituted in the 19th century by the heavy use of coal as a fuel.

I still say that politicizing science is a dangerous thing, in that it becomes difficult to determine the correct method of dealing with an actual problem.

104 posted on 06/04/2002 6:55:34 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Amelia
You make a good point about the data. I wonder if they have graphed temperature data collected in small towns only. What about graphing the data simply from state and national parks and forests?

It is just like the tree ring problem. I want to see different sets of data so that I can see how much each set of data skews the final result.

105 posted on 06/04/2002 6:58:08 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Belial
Rush is angry because there is now quite a bit of evidence that global warming is caused by humans. Rush isn't interested in the evidence.

Most of the 'evidence' is derived from computer generated models which are heavily biased towards the waccko side of the equation.

106 posted on 06/04/2002 6:59:13 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Amelia
I still think some of the increased surface temperatures are caused by many weather stations being located in high pavement, low vegetation areas such as airports, but that's just MY uninformed opinion. ;-)

(Amelia, somehow I get the impression that your opinions about science are anything but uninformed.) In the Boston area, the summary of daily temperatures would support your hypothesis. Boston is on the ocean, which should have a moderating effect on the temperature. Yet, its daily high temperture and daily low are affected by the man-made environment. Go just a few miles in any direction, and there is more cooling. If the average temperture were done right, the correct temperture (for evaluation purposes) would have to be done in a rural area. And the difference between a rural and urban average temperture in areas with proximity would be one good gauge of the effects of development on temperature.

107 posted on 06/04/2002 7:03:43 AM PDT by grania
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To: rdb3
You've hit the nail on the head. The fact of the matter is that politics is brutally Darwinian. You adapt politically, or you die politically. What scares me is that a number of conservatives are WILLINGLY choosing political death.
108 posted on 06/04/2002 7:09:02 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: grania; Miss Marple
I live in a rural area and work in town. My car has one of those thermometers that gives the outside temperature...I've noticed that the difference between the temperature in town and the temperature at home, especially on sunny days, is often fairly significant, perhaps 5 degrees? Of course, this is just my own observation, it's not really scientific research.
109 posted on 06/04/2002 7:12:27 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Miss Marple; Amelia
RE: urban warming. Based on what I've read, upper atmospheric satellite measurements don't reflect an increase in temperature. If greenhouse gases were on the rise, this increase should be present. The fact that only ground-based and lower atmospheric temps have increased is likely evidence of warming caused by man-made heat sinks, rather than greenhouse gases.
110 posted on 06/04/2002 7:19:13 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Amelia, Miss Marple
I'm curious now. I'm going to take out some quarter inch graph paper, and chart Boston vs. Plymouth (or Taunton) each day. I'm going to try to find out from a weather person or the weather station. Dang, I wish I knew a weather person. Any Freepers who are weather people?
111 posted on 06/04/2002 7:23:53 AM PDT by grania
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To: Pokey78
Sorry folks. Like it or not we lost the debate regarding whether global warming exists. The average person believes it to be so.

The problem with the existing terms of debate for both conservatives and liberals is we always missed the logical fallacy that the environuts were passing off. Namely that the Globe is warming THEREFORE we must sign Kyoto treaty.

Bush's approach on this put the debate against signing the treaty on much better footing that the old construct. It basically says OK so if global warming is caused by the minor amounts of man's actions what possible changes can man make (given that we have hundred years of carbon release) that would reverse the trend ? Its impossible to prove even with logical fallacies that anything will reverse the trend short of a complete ban on all releases.

But we must do something cry the environuts. Yes, Bush says we will study on how best to adapt to the coming changes. And oh yes, we conservatives will need to employ you scientists who have formerly worked for the environuts to come up with recommendations as to how best to adapt.

Bush has accepted that we lost the first argument but has retreated to a firmer place and at the same time has opened the opportunity to hire away the paid scientific shills.

112 posted on 06/04/2002 7:25:27 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
Bush's approach on this put the debate against signing the treaty on much better footing that the old construct. It basically says OK so if global warming is caused by the minor amounts of man's actions what possible changes can man make (given that we have hundred years of carbon release) that would reverse the trend ? Its impossible to prove even with logical fallacies that anything will reverse the trend short of a complete ban on all releases.

Good analysis. That said, if true this is a risky play. I think we've seen the same strategy with gun control fail time and again, because liberals will continue to redefine the argument. In this case, the next brainwashing for the public could very well be, "We must do something, since we know humans are causing global warming." If we lose THAT argument, where do we go from there?

113 posted on 06/04/2002 7:32:12 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Always Right
Most of the 'evidence' is derived from computer generated models which are heavily biased towards the waccko side of the equation.

Bush's report STATES that the current models are questionable and long term studies are necessasry to accurately determine any environmental climate change.

114 posted on 06/04/2002 7:37:05 AM PDT by finnman69
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To: NittanyLion
The fact that only ground-based and lower atmospheric temps have increased is likely evidence of warming caused by man-made heat sinks, rather than greenhouse gases.

That's my opinion as well.

115 posted on 06/04/2002 7:46:36 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: NittanyLion
We must do something, since we know humans are causing global warming." If we lose THAT argument, where do we go from there?

Its really the same argument as before because the nuts not only have to continue to model changes in the environment they also have to model the affect of their proposed changes. They will now be challenged on both fronts which are the rate of warming if any, the amount attributable to humans and the amount attributable to any proposed changes. But the added ingredient is doing the cost/benefit justification. It is this added ingredient that the global warming argument has avoided because of the fallicious argument that says Global warming, therefore Kyoto treaty.

For example the forumula might look like this

1. Assuming global warming is going to raise temperature by 1 degree over next 50 years. As assumption that will be challenged.

:2. Man accounts for 10% of the total. An assumption

3. We can change man's affect by les than 1%.

4. The affect of the change by 1% will postpone the the warming trend by 10 years.

The cost is 1 trillion dollars per year.

Or we can use the trillion dollars to do x ?

116 posted on 06/04/2002 7:50:18 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: grania
I'm going to try to find out from a weather person or the weather station.

You can get the info from The Weather Channel. You just need to input the zip code for each place.

There ought to be somewhere that has a HISTORY of temperatures, but I'm not sure where that is right now.

117 posted on 06/04/2002 7:53:49 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: dano1
To me it seems like good politics for Dubya to leave himself a little room to maneuver on this issue. Michael Kelly had an piece last year saying that the environment was W's Achilles heel. I think he's smart to stake out a more centrist position before the 2004 race gets going. He hasn't really conceded anything, and if it turns out that the electorate and/or the science ends up more dictating stringent measures, Dubya can follow that path now without appearing to waffle during the 2004 campaign.

Agreed. And having Rush Limbaugh treated like Sister Souljiah will warm up the soccer moms and take the wind out of the enviro wackos' sails.

How are the Sierra Club, NRDC, et al supposed to raise money and mobilize their base if both parties are the "same" (even though Dubya will take no explicit action)? Great smokescreen by the Bushies and the NYT fell right in. Rush's rant was probably requested by Rove.

118 posted on 06/04/2002 8:12:26 AM PDT by montag813
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To: montag813
An "old bull and young bull" strategy...
119 posted on 06/04/2002 8:16:16 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: nopardons
Yeah - Rush did let us down when he failed to take Klintoon to task for many of his rapes, murders, felonies, treasons, abuses of power, lies and such.

He's clearly ratings driven -- people listen to him because he is there because his ratings are high because people listen to him because he is there because ... and round and round it goes.

There are very few humans who could keep their sense of humility after making a success for over a decade getting paid mega-dollars to tell millions of people how great they were.

120 posted on 06/04/2002 8:21:37 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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