New Boy Scout troop serves Islamic youth

The City Paper (Nashville, TN) ^ | June 4, 2002 | Megan Moriarty

[Clint N. Suhks]

I can’t defend Islam; all I can do is take the word of those who practice the religion that they are worshiping the same God as me. Peculiar ritual, black rocks, snake handling, speaking in tongues, not being connected to electricity, not eating shellfish, et al, are curious methods of worship indeed, I’m just not sure I should judge them.

[stuartcr]

I do not have that feeling of 'there goes the neighborhood', and they probably feel the need for a separate group because of all the people that hate them simply because they are middle-easterners.

[Coleus]

My religion does not dictate me to face Mecca and pray to a meteorite and my God does not command me to kill anyone who disagrees with me religiously.

[VOA]

Only those who are ignorant of the legacy of Scouting would deride these boys.

Agreed.
There were even active BSA troops in the Japanese-American detention camps during WWII.
There is a photo of them at a raising of an American flag in one of the Time-Life
books on WWII.

[RonF]

I’m not upset, I just disagree with Ron that in the Boy Scout Oath, “Duty to God” is truly duty to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. If it were duty to any god (deity), as Ron believes, then the BSA should change God to a lowercase “g”.

What I mean to say is that when tthe BSA says "Duty to God", they mean that a Scout or Scouter needs to meet their duty to whatever specific religion or religious ideals they believe in. This includes Judeo/Christian religions, non-Judeo/Christian ones, and even non-theistic ones (such as Buddhism). In fact, a Scout or Scouter need not belong to any specific religion, as long as they profess some kind of religious belief.

Now, you may believe that in the English language, "God" (capitalized) refers specifically to the God of Abraham. In such a case, "Duty to God" probably should be changed. I'm not going to argue the case; that's better taken up with National. However, making a change of this nature is what led to the American Heritage Girls being formed, as a group of people apparently wanted an exclusively Judeo-Christian version of the GSUSA.

[SuziQ]

We have several Asian Indian boys in my son's Scout Troop. They are very nice young men, and are always willing to take positions of responsibility in the Troop.

[Clint N. Suhks]

My religion does not dictate me to face Mecca and pray to a meteorite and my God does not command me to kill anyone who disagrees with me religiously.

Nor does mine. Do you hold the same regard for the followers of Joseph Smith, Pentecostals speaking in tongues and snake handling and Christian Scientists for withholding medical treatment?

[Clint N. Suhks]

I'm not going to argue the case; that's better taken up with National. However, making a change of this nature is what led to the American Heritage Girls being formed, as a group of people apparently wanted an exclusively Judeo-Christian version of the GSUSA.

That’s my point exactly, if Scouts and Scouters want to recognize what is objectively the “God” of Abraham and still be in the BSA, let the chips fall where they may.

[Coleus]

I would if they flew planes into the world trade center killing thousands. Also, the Mulslim religion is very fragmented and unorganized, some state that jihad is part of their Quaran and others say no, there is no organized hierarchy and no organized policy-making authority. You have Louis Farrakhan calling the Jewish faith, gutter religion and stating that Yakoob created the white man in a test tube and that he was in "the spinning wheel" (a spaceship) over England--these people are nuts. And you have Osama planning the destruction of the entire Western World. Handling snakes and speaking in tongues (Catholics do theat too) is rather insignifiant to me, why are you preoccupied with such insignificant practices?

As I stated in a previous post on this thread, I have no problem with a Muslim-only Boy Scout Troop. BSA National ALLOWS it since it is up to the Chartering Organization as to whom they allow into their troop. I've seen troops with only Orthodox Jews and with only Mormons so there can be a Muslim-only troop as well.

[Clint N. Suhks]

these people are nuts.

Yes agreed, I’m just not ready to condemn all for the actions of a few.

Handling snakes and speaking in tongues (Catholics do that too) is rather insignificant to me, why are you preoccupied with such insignificant practices?

Catholics?? I’ve never heard of that, the practice of snake handling and speaking in tongues is centered around Appalachia in the Pentecost churches. Just curious, do you have a cite?

As far as being “preoccupied”, I’m not really. I proffer these as examples of strange and harmful religious practices I personally disagree with and are comparable to praying to a piece of granite and interpreting infidels as killing “no-believers”. But we all pray to the same God. I especially find Christian Science very harmful.

…I've seen troops with only Orthodox Jews and with only Mormons so there can be a Muslim-only troop as well.

Of course and I don’t disagree with that as it’s outlined under the Membership Requirements in the SM handbook. It is up to the Charter Organization to determine its own membership standards and those can be religious in nature. I’ll even take this guideline a step further, it also allows the CO to make it’s own rules for behavior and conduct, such as no earrings/piercings, long or dyed hair, make-up/long or painted nails, wearing women’s clothing…

[Coleus]

Catholics speak in tongues in the Charismatic Healing Services. They do not practice snake handling. I did not mean to combine the two.

[Coleus]

My dentist is a Muslim, from Syria.

So, tell me about Christian Science, I have a friend who, although doesn't practice it (He's Episcopalian), he still believes in this type of religion and professes that it works.

[Clint N. Suhks]

My dentist is a Muslim, from Syria.

Do you hold the same feelings for him?

So, tell me about Christian Science, I have a friend who, although doesn't practice it (He's Episcopalian), he still believes in this type of religion and professes that it works.

I know the power of prayer works, it’s objectively sound practice. But to ask God for miracles to fix your fuel pump is wrong, to ask God to heal cancer is good until we find a solution. Does that make sense; I think so, how about you?

[Clint N. Suhks]

What do you think about Charter Organizations making making membership requirements/rules that prohibit earrings, long hair…

[Cindy]

re. post #66. That's nice Suzi.

[Coleus]

Scouts should look like Scouts and wear the proper uniform, including scout pants, scout belts and no sneakers. Earings and long hair are for girls.

As I stated before, a Chartered Organization can accept whomever they want.

[Da_Shrimp]

Spot on about Scouts being multi-religion.

It should also be remembered that Baden-Powell was, of course, setting up the scouting movement at the height of the British Empire, which involved many religions and cultures: he wanted something that would encourage skills and courage in all Empire youth.

[Coleus]

The he is crazy for praying to a rock, Yes. How about you?

[RonF]

I agree that Scouts should wear the proper uniform. However, many parents are reluctant to buy the pants, as they are expensive (all BSA uniforming is made in America by union labor) and the kids outgrow them. Yes, they come unhemmed so you can let them out, but such sewing is beyond most people's skills.

As far as earrings, long hair, etc., I really don't care as long as there's no safety hazard. When I came back from college my freshman year I'd grown my hair down to my shoulders. I got told by my committee chair and my scoutmaster that I looked like a pimp. I left that Troop meeting and didn't go to another BSA function for a quarter century. I don't think that did anyone any good.

So when a Scout showed up at Troop meeting in full Class A uniform and a blue Mohawk haircut, I didn't say a thing, much against all the Scouts' expectations, as I'm generally regarded as a harda$$. The Scoutmaster's minute that night was the story above of my experience. I then stated that Scouts are expected to follow the Scout Law and Scout Oath, and as far as I could see they were silent on hair length and color.

I'd love for the kids not to wear sneakers. The wearing of either brown or black shoes is still on the uniform inspection sheet. However, few of the kids in my unit own anything else but sneakers. I'm having a hard time getting the parents to buy hiking boots.

Now, the chartered organization could overrule me. But then they'd not only lose a number of their Scouts, they'd be looking for a new Scoutmaster as well.