WHAT SHOULD CONSERVATIVES DO ABOUT THE GOP AND BUSH?

June-03-2002 | Texasforever

[Texasforever]

WHAT SHOULD CONSERVATIVES DO IN 2002 AND 2004

There has been a very loud and nasty argument gong on around here for months about how the GOP and George W. Bush have deserted Conservatives to pander to moderates and liberals and that they would stay home to show their discontent.. I say argument and not debate because there has been no debate just charge and counter-charge. I have issued the challenge to several disaffected former GOP and Bush supporters to start a thread that would focus on viable alternatives to both the GOP in 2002 and a replacement for Bush in 2004. None have taken up that challenge so I will start the thread myself.

This thread is not to continue the argument pro and con for either the GOP OR G.W. Bush.. Assume that conservatives have decided that Republicans are a lost cause and that the task is to put into place a viable alternative and candidate that will not result in conceding the elections to the democrats because that is neither smart OR rational. With that in mind I hope some of you that have given up and are very vocal in that stance will make your case for how conservatives should vote in the mid-term elections and who should be the conservative choice for POTUS, regardless of party, in 2004. If there is a candidate out there that you know about that could be groomed for national office in 2 years then please tell us why you think so and as much about the record on conservative issues as possible.

Once again, please refrain from just airing the same reasons for not supporting Bush, the GOP or both. That is already documented. The purpose for this thread are viable alternatives or solutions.

[rebelsoldier]

Bush won upon the exact promises and principles that he now abandons, thereby forgetting the basic lesson all who do this to their constituency come to regret: that by making concessions, appeasements, and surrenders to your political enemies for fruitless hopes of support only makes them and their cause stronger and yours weaker. Since they are not going to support you no matter how much you give them, what you have done in essense is to "win" over the enemy by becoming the enemy, and thus in reality defeated yourself and destroyed your cause and your support. Since Bush = Gore now, more or less, there is no point in going back to the "well" of grassroot supporters who have been backstabbed and betrayed and asking them for another chance. At this point, committed, hard-core, principled conservatives have NO dog in this fight and will probably sit out the next election or vote for a hopeless ticket because of the absolute failures and utter surrenders their HARD fought and HARD won candidate George W. Bush did to them. You need to blame the perpetrator (Bush), not the victims (conservatives).

[MileHi]

Don't stay home. Don't abandon your LOCAL races.

I will. I have been working to get A pro CCW REPUBLICAN on the ballot for sheriff.

[Ahban]

Even if we are only 5%, we need to break away and join a party (Consitution Party) that is not afraid to DEFEND THE TRUTH. Right now, the truth is not being articulated, not being defended, by the Republicans. Since those ideas are not and have not been defended, even by the party that claims to champion them, it is no wonder that fewer and fewer people believe them.

Most Americans are not idealoges. They will vote for the person who makes their case with the most passion, conviction, and persuasion whether that case is for liberal or conservative ideals. That is why we have a chance to win even if only a small sliver of us are true beleivers.

But the case must be made, and the GOP has not and will not make it. It is simply time to face the facts squarely and cut our losses.

[Dan from Michigan]

1. Is the Republican Party salvagable and can GWB's course be turned back toward the conservative agenda?

First part, yes. Second part, I don't know.
The GOP is NOT GWBUSH. That's the first thing to remember. He's one guy, not the party. That's it. If we can all get that through our heads, we can go somewhere.
Now the question is HOW.
A. Join the local GOP
B. Join activists groups like NRA and MCRGO
C. Run for precint delegate and affect the state party platform
D. Recruit likeminded people to run for office. County Commish, school board, city council. Those are winnable, especially with open seats. State rep is tougher for newbies, but also winnable with a strong campaign. Use the networks and activist groups to raise money, and go door to door in a grass roots campaign. Grassroots beats establishment most of the time if done RIGHT.
E. Get those grassroots stars to run for higher office afterward. Do I think a Sue Tabor or Alan Cropsey in my state could win a congress seat? Hell yeah they can.

2. Is a viable 3rd party workable?
It hasn't been workable since 1856. Teddy Roosevelt didn't do it, neither did Strom Thurmond, George Wallce, H Ross Perot, Harry Browne, Pat Buchanan, or Ralph Nader.

[agrandis]

I hear ya! Well said! It is my belief that my ancestors literally handed down to me my nation, with its Constitution. It was not easy for them. To me, it is part of obeying the 5th Commandment to defend what they have handed me.

[Saturnalia]

CLAN AzN_PrYdE 4 LIFE YO!!!

OMG WALLHACK CAMPER!

[Dan from Michigan]

I agree and there could and should be a Leader to do just that

Then lead. Too many people look for others to lead. That's the problem with this country.

[Jorge]

I still support President Bush. Most of what he does I like.

How refreshing!
I also will continue to support Bush for the same reason.

[Teacher317]

Right now, the truth is not being articulated, not being defended, by the Republicans.

Aw, c'mon, you have to give Ashcroft's pro-2A commentary some credit. It was great to see the Left hopping up and down crying about the 'danger' he unleashed at our children simply by reading the Second Amendment out loud. ;^)

[dheretic]

There isn't a viable alternative. And this idea of getting active and creating alternative organizations like FRN is just pissing in the wind. Folks have got to work from within the party; it's a marathon not a race

Vote for Bush, then vote Libertarian in every other election that you can participate in. If Bush finds a bunch of wishy washy moderate pals being replaced by Libertarians, he'll shape up. You know why? Because it will tell his people that the right pitched in with a lot of protest votes for a party that will actually advance most of its core interests. The LP would give up on the open border policy I think in order to win votes. Rightists in this country need to learn that if they want a party that is ideologically opposed to the income tax, gun control, discrimination against Christianity, involvement in meaningless foreign wars and a welfare state, they have to vote for the LP. The Republicans have been given too many second chances and it is time to send them packing.

Say what you all will about the LP's stances on drugs and porn, but would you rather have porn and drugs be legal and have:

1. No income tax and moderate excise taxes
2. The right to own any gun you want (except for something like a grendate launcher or shoulder rocket launcher of course)
3. The education system set up so that petty bureacrats have no say where your kids get educated whether it is in a private school, at home, in church or wherever there are competent teachers

than have a system in which the GOP is going to slowly compromise away your rights because it doesn't have the balls to stand up to anyone that criticize it? Watch the LP's candidates when they get in the media. They are more often on the offensive than the defensive. No "gee golly gosh it's the people's money so uh well uh you should give it back to them" "It's the people's money and the government's, so give it back to them at once!" That is the difference. Which do you want, a meely-mouthed "representative" or a representative that will tell it like it is?

For everyone's information, the LP has come out in defense of Christians to establish churches wherever they have the resources to do so. The LP opposes zoning restrictions and things like that which tell people they cannot have large prayer meetings in their houses. IIRC there was an incident in New England where a couple violated a local ordinance because they had a large religious meeting in their house which was zoned for residential use only. The party that came out in their defense? Not the Republicans, the LP.

[Starwind]

A. Join the local GOP
B. Join activists groups like NRA and MCRGO
C. Run for precint delegate and affect the state party platform
D. Recruit likeminded people to run for office.

That's how Bush Sr and Jr got elected and they changed their positions after getting office.

What will prevent the next RINO from doing the same?

[Pee_Oui]

Oh, yeah. Ron Paul respects our freedoms so much that months ago he called for us to get out of Afghanistan and bring all our soldiers home.

So, where's Bin Laden???How are we treating the prisoners in Gtmo?? How many will be set free to return home?

Just what HAVE we done to catch ANYONE who attacked us??

Just wondering

DL

[Dan from Michigan]

Exactly. Politics is a *communal* activity and it is one that by its nature requires compromise. One reason the Republican Party is often full of "moderates" is because the moderates are *the ones who show up.* They are the ones who go to the local meetings; run for school board and state representative; get involved at the state level.

BINGO. That's why Livingston County is dominated by an alliance of MCRGO/NRA - Right to Life - Chamber of Commerce. Those three show up at all the meetings.

I've been a member of the Livingston County GOP for a year. In that short time, the chair has considered me for executive board. I even got the chair to join MCRGO. Why? Since we got 20 people at the local Posthumus(our next governor) Nugent Fundraiser. My specific job is to get the gun vote out. Posthumus has gone to bat for us, and the ball is now in our court. I'll do my part.

WE CAN TAKE THE PARTY BACK. To all - Show up at the meetings, join them if you aren't a member, fight for our freedoms, and do not back down. Compromise(if a gain, not a loss) if you must, but remember our goals.

[Irene Adler]

"If I remember my history, Teddy Roosevelt ran on a 3rd Party Ticket and won."

Well, you don't remember your history very well. TR ran on the Bull Moose ticket against Wilson and Taft and was badly beaten. TR had been President before but had stepped aside after serving one full term and a partial term (following McKinley's death) in favor of Taft. Taft won, but Roosevelt didn't end up liking his policies and attempted to get the Republican nomination away from him after one term. He didn't get the nomination and so started the Bull Moose Party. It was a debacle, and he probably shouldn't have done it.

[WRhine]

My comments were to Texasforever in particular - I think his mind is set, and it is so transparent what he is working at here. I suspect there is no acceptable "plan" to him, really, and think he may be a wee bit insincere in his purpose for this thread.

Texasforever?? You Must Be Kidding! He has demonstrated his independent thinking time and again on FR. A more objective, unbiased poster you will never find.../sarcasm off.

[mrsmith]

Alan Keyes, Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle

Two of those names would definitely be ruled out precisely because of "the popular culture, academia, the media, the salon, the arts. "

I voted for Keyes in the primary, and have hopes for him- but he sure hasn't been successful as a politician. Though he does good work helping to educate the electorate; thereby addressing this problem of "the popular culture, academia, the media, the salon, the arts".

BTW: I remember the explosion in the federal domestic budget under Reagan. He had to compromise with the media-backed Tip O'neil.

[Mo1]

This should be an interesting thread to read .. LOL

[Spiff]

Buchanan is a great writer, and perhaps the world's most miserable politician. He knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Hey, I'm a Buchanan fan too. I read and enjoy his books and articles. However, I agree that he is a miserable politician.

[Dan from Michigan]

Easier? I don't think so. Buchanan, Browne, Nader, George Wallace, Strom Thurmond, Eugene Debbs(I think), John Anderson and Teddy Roosevelt have tried the same thing. It didn't work.

Instead, at least in my county, we're moving more and more to the right. Moderate is a bad word here now. All candidates running here are at lease claiming to be conservative and are fighting over who is more right wing. No pro-aborts and no anti-gunners are running here.

[hauerf]

Now the question is HOW.
A. Join the local GOP
B. Join activists groups like NRA and MCRGO
C. Run for precint delegate and affect the state party platform
D. Recruit likeminded people to run for office. County Commish, school board, city council. Those are winnable, especially with open seats. State rep is tougher for newbies, but also winnable with a strong campaign. Use the networks and activist groups to raise money, and go door to door in a grass roots campaign. Grassroots beats establishment most of the time if done RIGHT.
E. Get those grassroots stars to run for higher office afterward. Do I think a Sue Tabor or Alan Cropsey in my state could win a congress seat? Hell yeah they can.

F. Make your $$$ contributions NOT to the Republican Party to be diverted to RINOS but rather to The Club for Growth so that you know you're supporting conservative / libertarian Republicans like Freeper Jay Wolfe.