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How did the infidels win?
National Post ^ | June 01 2002 | Bernard Lewis

Posted on 06/01/2002 11:01:44 AM PDT by knighthawk

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1 posted on 06/01/2002 11:01:44 AM PDT by knighthawk
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To: dennisw; OKCSubmariner; watchin; VOA; harpseal; timestax; xJones; justshutupandtakeit; TopDog2...
Infidel ping list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

2 posted on 06/01/2002 11:03:54 AM PDT by knighthawk
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To: knighthawk
A must read. I'm sorry, but I think we are going to have to bring them to their knees before we have peace.
3 posted on 06/01/2002 11:07:06 AM PDT by dix
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To: knighthawk
Bernard Lewis bump
4 posted on 06/01/2002 11:13:10 AM PDT by tictoc
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To: dix
I'm sorry, but I think we are going to have to bring them to their knees before we have peace.

Do NOT apologize. You are 100% correct.

Islam is the scourge of the earth.

Edom is intent on having his revenge come hell or high water. And I for one wouldn't mind helping his seed travel to "Allah."

5 posted on 06/01/2002 11:14:31 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: knighthawk
A very interesting post. The Professor shows a more balanced approach than one usually finds among modern day American Academics. Hence, I have for the moment put aside my normal skepticism and desire to point out the errors in Academic offerings, and am seriously considering the man's points.

Thank you for posting this.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

6 posted on 06/01/2002 11:14:37 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: knighthawk
bump
7 posted on 06/01/2002 11:14:56 AM PDT by remaininlight
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To: *History_list;*Clash of Civilizatio
Bump list
8 posted on 06/01/2002 11:20:08 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: knighthawk
The second approach is to say "Who did this to us?" This of course leads into a twilight world of anti-Western conspiracy theories and neurotic fantasies. Unfortunately, this approach has prevailed in many parts of the Muslim world to the present day.

Perfect!

9 posted on 06/01/2002 11:32:16 AM PDT by facedown
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To: knighthawk; Sara Of Earth †
Nice, quick historical perspective. ;

Ping

10 posted on 06/01/2002 11:32:37 AM PDT by martian_22
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To: knighthawk
They have, for example, strengthened dictatorship to a degree that was never possible previously.

-----------------------------

I doubt this. Islam is a history of dictatorship.

11 posted on 06/01/2002 11:36:19 AM PDT by RLK
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To: knighthawk
dar al-Harb bump
12 posted on 06/01/2002 11:36:53 AM PDT by My Identity
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: knighthawk; Nogbad; keri
Look at the following passage in this interesting article:

The lesson was clear: A European power could come to the region and do what it pleased, and only another European power could get them out. Thus began the game, so to speak, of playing European powers off against one another.

For two centuries or more, the scenario remained the same -- though the players were sometimes different. In the final phase, the players were the two superpowers, the Soviet Union and the United States; and Middle Eastern leaders used the skills they had perfected over two centuries in playing them off against each other.

Then, suddenly, it came to an end. The phase in history that had been initiated by Bonaparte and Nelson was terminated by Bush and Gorbachev. Suddenly, there was no rivalry; there were no rival powers. First one and then the other seemed disinclined to play the Imperial role -- the Russians because they couldn't and the Americans because they wouldn't. Some Muslim leaders are trying to keep playing the old game, and so are seeking another power to play off against the West, as it is embodied by the United States. The prime candidate is the European Union, or at least some parts of the European Union where there is a negative sentiment regarding America. Unfortunately, for those who pursue this policy, even if the Europeans have the will to play this role, they lack the ability.

Maybe the prime candidate is not the European Union, but China.

14 posted on 06/01/2002 11:39:43 AM PDT by Mitchell
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To: knighthawk
great read...and bump
15 posted on 06/01/2002 11:41:18 AM PDT by VOA
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To: knighthawk
Let me add my two cents worth:

1.) The "Source of all our troubles was the West" bunch got their foothold as a result of Jimmy Carter engineering the fall of the Shah of Iran.

2.) The only hope for peace between the Moslem world and the West is found in the adoption by the Moslems of the Turkish model of democratic rule.

16 posted on 06/01/2002 11:53:37 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: knighthawk
From the time of Muhammad till the second siege of Vienna in 1683, Islamic civilization regarded the Christian West as a benighted backwater.

"Islamic civilization" duly added to my comprehensive oxymoron list.

America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

17 posted on 06/01/2002 11:54:39 AM PDT by JCG
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To: Mitchell
Maybe the prime candidate is not the European Union, but China.

I think you're right. Playing the US against China makes a lot more sense.

18 posted on 06/01/2002 11:55:14 AM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: knighthawk
The main question: What went wrong?

Answer: G_d has the same opinion of moslems that I do.

19 posted on 06/01/2002 12:01:04 PM PDT by neutrino
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To: knighthawk
Moslems don't see the validity of borders, boundaries or nations. Their vision is a global one. They want the whole world to look like this:


20 posted on 06/01/2002 12:04:17 PM PDT by samtheman
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