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Pennsylvania Lawmaker: Troops Guarding Nuclear Plants With Unloaded Weapons
AP ^ | May 31, 2002

Posted on 05/31/2002 6:57:45 AM PDT by TomGuy

Pennsylvania Lawmaker: Troops Guarding Nuclear Plants With Unloaded Weapons

The Associated Press
Published: May 31, 2002

YORK, Pa. (AP) - Pennsylvania National Guard troops have been patrolling the state's five nuclear power plants with unloaded weapons, according to a state lawmaker.

House Minority Whip Mike Veon's comment in Friday's York Daily Record followed statements from guardsmen last week that they had been banned from carrying loaded weapons while on patrol at Pennsylvania airports following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The Pennsylvania National Guard would not confirm either report or comment on its staffing.

"Our soldiers are armed and fully capable of defending themselves and carrying out their assigned missions," said guard spokesman John Maietta.

State police who also patrol the nuclear plants carry loaded weapons, said state Rep. Bruce Smith, who requested National Guard troops at Three Mile Island. He said he was comfortable with that arrangement.

Veon said he was trying to get Gov. Mark Schweiker and the guard to change its policy on loaded weapons.

"I don't understand their philosophy on security, quite frankly," Veon said. "Those precious seconds could cost some of them dearly."

Earlier this month, Schweiker announced that troops and state police would continue to provide additional security at the nuclear power plants through the end of the year.

Dave Hixson, a spokesman for Schweiker, said appropriate action would be taken if someone tried to breach security at the plants.

"If somebody comes up to the plant gate and starts firing, I don't think they're going to ask questions," Hixson said. "They're going to start firing."

Guard units in Arkansas and Massachusetts also stationed soldiers at their nuclear power plants following the Sept. 11 attacks, but their guns were loaded, officials in those states told the Daily Record.

At the state's airports, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Sunday that guardsmen had carried loaded magazines on their belts but not loaded weapons. The Inquirer based its report on interviews with several guardsmen who said they had been banned from carrying loaded weapons while patrolling at 16 airports in the state, including Philadelphia International Airport, which the guardsmen left May 10.

AP-ES-05-31-02 0931EDT


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: nationalguard; nobullits; nuclearplant; pennsylvania
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1 posted on 05/31/2002 6:57:46 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy
Just like what happened here at John Wayne airport (Orange County, CA). The National Guard didn't even have clips in their weapons.

Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

2 posted on 05/31/2002 7:00:56 AM PDT by oc-flyfish
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To: TomGuy
Thanks for the tip American. "Allah 'u' Akbar".
3 posted on 05/31/2002 7:01:57 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: oc-flyfish
I always wondered under what circumstances the Guard would be allowed to open fire in a crowded airport with automatic weapons. I really didn't think that any politician or military commander would want to take the heat it for that decision.
4 posted on 05/31/2002 7:08:50 AM PDT by Brad C.
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To: TomGuy
As long as they have loaded mags on their belts, this seems to be much ado about nothing. It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second.
5 posted on 05/31/2002 7:10:09 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: Brad C.
Police and their higher ups face the same issues.

I guess we are supposed to be reassured that the National Guard can club any terrorist into submission. :-)

6 posted on 05/31/2002 7:11:33 AM PDT by oc-flyfish
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To: TomGuy
BFS

Barney Fife Syndrome

Barney had one bullet in his shirt pocket and always had a hard time getting in into his pistol.

7 posted on 05/31/2002 7:12:34 AM PDT by Senator_Blutarski
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To: Brad C.
You've got it. When I was in the military many years ago, we were always issued unloaded weapons for guard duty. It's a command decision. The commander balances the likelihood of a terrorist attack against the likelihood of some GI with a hangover letting off his weapon, or maybe tripping over a tree root. From the security point of view, it would be worth risking accidental shootings in preference to risking a nuclear meltdown. From a cover-your-*ss point of view, the priorities are reversed. Many peacetime commanders and most politicians consider covering their *sses to be much more important than protecting their country.
8 posted on 05/31/2002 7:13:34 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: Semper Paratus
Gosh...just goes to show you how freaking stupid some of these lawmakers actually are, doesn't it??? HELLO???? Figures, it's a dumbocrat, too. Jeez.
9 posted on 05/31/2002 7:20:10 AM PDT by DJ88
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To: oc-flyfish
Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

BINGO!

10 posted on 05/31/2002 7:28:05 AM PDT by bloodmeridian
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To: Cicero
There's a difference between having a full magazine in the weapon and having a round chambered.
11 posted on 05/31/2002 7:28:41 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
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To: Thane_Banquo
"As long as they have loaded mags on their belts, this seems to be much ado about nothing. It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second."

I HOPE you are joking!!!!!

Pulling a mag from your belt, inserting it into the mag well, charging the firearm, aiming and engaging a target will take at least 5 seconds longer AND REQUIRE TWO HANDS. Furthermore, the decision to initiate the process is to escalate the situation so you would have to be anticipating and acting 5-10 seconds ahead of a preceived threat.

We lost those Marines in Lebanon over such insanity.

In the case of the unloaded guards in the airport all the authorities accomplished was to put guns and ammo in the airport in such a manner that a terrorist could access them. It would just be that much more easy to subdue one or both guards and take their weapons and ammo and take control of a concourse. I have never in my life heard of such PC stupidity!!!!

The weapons should be fully loaded, one in the chamber, safety on.

12 posted on 05/31/2002 7:31:50 AM PDT by Liberty Ship
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To: Thane_Banquo
"It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second."

It is safe if your people are properly trained. If they are not it is your fault. It also only takes a second for the sentry to be taken out. When you are being fired at you must pull the mag from from the pouch, insert mag, send bolt home, take the weapon off safe, aim in and fire. Quite a few steps when the pucker factor of getting fired at is present.

Semper Fi.
13 posted on 05/31/2002 7:33:33 AM PDT by SICSEMPERTYRANNUS
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To: oc-flyfish
Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

This is the best reason for keeping most of those idiots in the dark about security.

I was visiting my brother-in-law last month, who is a control room manager at a nuclear plant in PA. In addition to the Troops there, the plant is practically in the back yard of the local State Police barracks, where his son-in-law is a trooper.

The three of us were discussing the security in general terms and it sounded to me like they were well prepared for threats, with regular drills using former Special Forces troops.

14 posted on 05/31/2002 7:35:04 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: Cicero
Many peacetime commanders and most politicians consider covering their *sses to be much more important than protecting their country.

You nailed it, alright. Makes my blood boil. I've seen it firsthand during my active-duty days and continue to see it from the outside.

I wonder how much training and (real) equipment and manpower could have been covered on the cost of those black berets. And Shitseki is still there, too along with the rest of the 'ticket-punchers'. From the looks of things, it seems that 'W' has no interest in cleaning house, much less upholding the Constitution or protecting the country.

I know that my 'W' bash is a little off-topic since the thread is dealing with state NG's, but the cancer has spread everywhere, IMHO.

15 posted on 05/31/2002 7:37:00 AM PDT by Looking4Truth
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To: Brad C.
airport with automatic weapons.,

There's no information here with regards to which firearm the PA NG troops have been issued.
If it's the 9mm auto loading pistol, it's not capable of being fired in "automatic."
If it's the M-16 rifle, there most likely is a stop guard preventing selection of "auto" fire.
Even if there is not, most full auto fire is a TV and Movie thing.
I'll bet most of those young NG troops have never fired full auto, and wouldn't want to learn how in a mall.

I'd be more concerned with the ball ammo passing though intended targets.

16 posted on 05/31/2002 7:41:18 AM PDT by ASA Vet
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To: oc-flyfish
Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

If this "stupid" politician knows the weapons are unloaded, do you really think the terrorists will miss it?

Going public might shame the Pennsylvania RINOs into giving permission for loaded weapons.

17 posted on 05/31/2002 7:47:13 AM PDT by ExpandNATO
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To: Cicero
we were always issued unloaded weapons for guard duty

I guess it depends on what you're guarding.
In units I was in our guards were always were locked and loaded with live ammo.
In the field that would include fully loaded M-60's. (Yes, even in CONUS.)

18 posted on 05/31/2002 7:50:59 AM PDT by ASA Vet
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To: TomGuy
Pennsylvania National Guard troops have been patrolling the state's five nuclear power plants with unloaded weapons, according to a state lawmaker

Maybe they can beat the terrorists to death with a loaded sandbag. Sounds like the State AG or some other politician in a uniform is putting these Guardsmen and our national security at risk.

19 posted on 05/31/2002 7:56:47 AM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: ExpandNATO
Terrorists are limited to the recon they can do on their own. Why make it easier for them to pick targets?
20 posted on 05/31/2002 7:57:57 AM PDT by oc-flyfish
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