Pennsylvania Lawmaker: Troops Guarding Nuclear Plants With Unloaded Weapons

AP ^ | May 31, 2002

[oc-flyfish]

Just like what happened here at John Wayne airport (Orange County, CA). The National Guard didn't even have clips in their weapons.

Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

[Semper Paratus]

Thanks for the tip American. "Allah 'u' Akbar".

[Brad C.]

I always wondered under what circumstances the Guard would be allowed to open fire in a crowded airport with automatic weapons. I really didn't think that any politician or military commander would want to take the heat it for that decision.

[Thane_Banquo]

As long as they have loaded mags on their belts, this seems to be much ado about nothing. It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second.

[oc-flyfish]

Police and their higher ups face the same issues.

I guess we are supposed to be reassured that the National Guard can club any terrorist into submission. :-)

[Senator_Blutarski]

BFS

Barney Fife Syndrome

Barney had one bullet in his shirt pocket and always had a hard time getting in into his pistol.

[Cicero]

You've got it. When I was in the military many years ago, we were always issued unloaded weapons for guard duty. It's a command decision. The commander balances the likelihood of a terrorist attack against the likelihood of some GI with a hangover letting off his weapon, or maybe tripping over a tree root. From the security point of view, it would be worth risking accidental shootings in preference to risking a nuclear meltdown. From a cover-your-*ss point of view, the priorities are reversed. Many peacetime commanders and most politicians consider covering their *sses to be much more important than protecting their country.

[DJ88]

Gosh...just goes to show you how freaking stupid some of these lawmakers actually are, doesn't it??? HELLO???? Figures, it's a dumbocrat, too. Jeez.

[bloodmeridian]

Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

BINGO!

[CholeraJoe]

There's a difference between having a full magazine in the weapon and having a round chambered.

[Liberty Ship]

"As long as they have loaded mags on their belts, this seems to be much ado about nothing. It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second."

I HOPE you are joking!!!!!

Pulling a mag from your belt, inserting it into the mag well, charging the firearm, aiming and engaging a target will take at least 5 seconds longer AND REQUIRE TWO HANDS. Furthermore, the decision to initiate the process is to escalate the situation so you would have to be anticipating and acting 5-10 seconds ahead of a preceived threat.

We lost those Marines in Lebanon over such insanity.

In the case of the unloaded guards in the airport all the authorities accomplished was to put guns and ammo in the airport in such a manner that a terrorist could access them. It would just be that much more easy to subdue one or both guards and take their weapons and ammo and take control of a concourse. I have never in my life heard of such PC stupidity!!!!

The weapons should be fully loaded, one in the chamber, safety on.

[SICSEMPERTYRANNUS]

"It isn't safe to walk around with a loaded weapon when there is no immediate threat, and taking a mag from your belt to your gun takes about a second."

It is safe if your people are properly trained. If they are not it is your fault. It also only takes a second for the sentry to be taken out. When you are being fired at you must pull the mag from from the pouch, insert mag, send bolt home, take the weapon off safe, aim in and fire. Quite a few steps when the pucker factor of getting fired at is present.

Semper Fi.

[TroutStalker]

Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

This is the best reason for keeping most of those idiots in the dark about security.

I was visiting my brother-in-law last month, who is a control room manager at a nuclear plant in PA. In addition to the Troops there, the plant is practically in the back yard of the local State Police barracks, where his son-in-law is a trooper.

The three of us were discussing the security in general terms and it sounded to me like they were well prepared for threats, with regular drills using former Special Forces troops.

[Looking4Truth]

Many peacetime commanders and most politicians consider covering their *sses to be much more important than protecting their country.

You nailed it, alright. Makes my blood boil. I've seen it firsthand during my active-duty days and continue to see it from the outside.

I wonder how much training and (real) equipment and manpower could have been covered on the cost of those black berets. And Shitseki is still there, too along with the rest of the 'ticket-punchers'. From the looks of things, it seems that 'W' has no interest in cleaning house, much less upholding the Constitution or protecting the country.

I know that my 'W' bash is a little off-topic since the thread is dealing with state NG's, but the cancer has spread everywhere, IMHO.

[ASA Vet]

airport with automatic weapons.,

There's no information here with regards to which firearm the PA NG troops have been issued.
If it's the 9mm auto loading pistol, it's not capable of being fired in "automatic."
If it's the M-16 rifle, there most likely is a stop guard preventing selection of "auto" fire.
Even if there is not, most full auto fire is a TV and Movie thing.
I'll bet most of those young NG troops have never fired full auto, and wouldn't want to learn how in a mall.

I'd be more concerned with the ball ammo passing though intended targets.

[ExpandNATO]

Of course you have to wonder at the stupidity of this politican for pointing it out to all would-be terrorists...

If this "stupid" politician knows the weapons are unloaded, do you really think the terrorists will miss it?

Going public might shame the Pennsylvania RINOs into giving permission for loaded weapons.

[ASA Vet]

we were always issued unloaded weapons for guard duty

I guess it depends on what you're guarding.
In units I was in our guards were always were locked and loaded with live ammo.
In the field that would include fully loaded M-60's. (Yes, even in CONUS.)

[TADSLOS]

Pennsylvania National Guard troops have been patrolling the state's five nuclear power plants with unloaded weapons, according to a state lawmaker

Maybe they can beat the terrorists to death with a loaded sandbag. Sounds like the State AG or some other politician in a uniform is putting these Guardsmen and our national security at risk.

[oc-flyfish]

Terrorists are limited to the recon they can do on their own. Why make it easier for them to pick targets?