MIKHAIL GORBACHEV: From the Presidium to the Presidio

kenraggio.com ^ | Ken Raggio

[Stavka2]

Oh, I'm sorry, maybe this "idiot" has some concept of what he speaks of, since as opposed to you nuts, not only am I Russian, lived in Russia but I've also lived in America and I've traveled most of the Western world...which means, having studied history and politics, I might have a real clue about reality and not your bunker stupidity. .... here, let me give you all a little spoiler about your futures...you'll all die very disappointed men. And if you are such big shots and heroes in your minds, why don't you grab one of your many guns and come after us Russians, we'll see how long you Ramboes last.

[Orion78]

"By the way...the reason it should sound familiar is that before you Western intelligentsia forced Communism on us, 13% is what the Tsar took"

Is this statement historically accurate?

[Stavka2]

First of all, I never once said that Gorbachov wasn't for world government and that he wasn't a communist. He is an ideologist through and through. He is also one of the most hated men in Russia. Partially because he was a communist boss and partially because when he collapsed the Soviet Union, through his stupidity, he allowed Russia itself to disolve into 18 entities. Something the vast majority of the people were against. As for West and communism, they are welcome to it. Thanks for the 70 years of misery and terror that all the Western Intelligencia helped import into my mother land. Thanks for the 30 million dead from the Communists and the other 20 million dead from the other Marxists, the Nazies.

As for the fools here who actually think the Soviets are going to come back and rule Russia, go pound sand. If the bunch of you hate us Russians so much, by all means, be men and take a gun and we'll settle it once and for all. Russian soil only grows greener off of the blood of foreigners.

[Orion78]

"He is also one of the most hated men in Russia. Partially because he was a communist boss and partially because when he collapsed the Soviet Union, through his stupidity, he allowed Russia itself to disolve into 18 entities. Something the vast majority of the people were against"

Geopolitical Strategies of Russia, The 'Commonwealth of Independent States' and China Perestroika Deception:Memorandum to CIA | March 26, 1992 | Anatoliy Golitsyn

"The present assessment shows how, because of Western ignorance of and confusion about the strategy underlying 'Perestroika' and because of Western political and economic support for the so-called reform of the Soviet system, the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) has been successfully installed and has begun to carry out concrete new geopolitical strategies within the framework of the long-standing overall Communist strategy of convergence. These strategies are still being guided and coordinated by the same Soviet strategists who have simply shifted away from the use of the old worn-out ideology and the familiar but obsolete patterns, to the exploitation of geopolitical factors and of the new potentialities of the 'reformed' Communist system. The common feature of these geopolitical strategies is the manipulation and use of the 'democrat' and 'independent' images which the change in form from the USSR to the CIS and it's individual members has provided so abundantly and the nature of which the West has, so far, failed to comprehend."

[Orion78]

"He is also one of the most hated men in Russia."

Gorbachev still a prophet in his own country

Speaking of "Beating a dead horse"...Please see bottom of Post#6

[GOP_1900AD]

Stavka and others defending "Weimar Russia" (I use this terminology with great purpose...) sure talk a lot about bunkers. That is because Russia built and continues to build them while us naive, overly trusting Westerners build shopping malls and freeways. If only we did have more bunkers...

[lavaroise]

As for the fools here who actually think the Soviets are going to come back and rule Russia, go pound sand. If the bunch of you hate us Russians so much, by all means, be men and take a gun and we'll settle it once and for all. Russian soil only grows greener off of the blood of foreigners.

We will do just that if the Russians believe they are hated, no matter, for hatred is a right too, after all. There is no need to pound sands regarding communism, but nukes.

Communism is not far fetched given the fact that nuclear weapons are the only true "communising" weapons. After all, Chernobyl was a great exercise (concoted or accidental, no matter) at creating true communism in the region. Now that everyone has been evacuated, the area and the station there has been run by the government of Ukraine so effectively that the governors even got direct subsidies from Europe and the US to stop this "travesty"... Of course, it has not stopped and it is the governors and not the land owners of the area, that are stuffing their pockets.

What better excuse there is indeed against the restoration of legitimate jurisdictions but to impose safety and security mandates accross whole regions, replacing jurisdictions with mandatory "efficient" ideological and technical algorithms.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

I think that Stavka2 and Austin Willard are the only people refraining from ignorant hatred on this thread. I was just in Russia three weeks ago. Did you you know that the Kremlin is SURROUNDED by shopping malls? Yes, it's true! The GUM (department store just east of it) was built in 1883-1887 and was probably the world's first shopping mall as we know it with luxury goods and great variety. Just WEST of the Kremlin is a new $350,000,000 shopping mall, which we had great fun visiting also.

In support of Stavka2 against various ignoramuses, I will confirm his actual FACTS about the 13% flat tax; about the great and increasing prosperity and private enterprise in and about Moscow (such that you couldn't guess from looking out our hotel window that you weren't in some other great world city); about the TOTAL ABSENCE of even one symbol of Communism (i.e. NO red flags, No red slogans on banners; NO statues of Lenin, etc) but their replacement with Russia's TRADITIONAL symbols (the double-headed eagle carried down from its affiliation with the Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire; the icons of St. George).

I am sorry to see that the dummies in the West are still fixated on Russia as a threat to their prosperity. I think the problem is that things in the West (at the pinnacle of its power and wealth) can only get worse; things in Russia can only get better.

[lavaroise]

I dunno, I think we are not hating Russians here, unless you are not reading correctly. And Xenophobia was quite well set up after the defeat of Russia to Japan in soccer.

The point is that former Soviets are participating in a system that is simply unaccountable, internaly and externaly. Whether it is breaking treaties abroad or promises at home, the system there is geared toward confinement. The rulers keep being in position of prosecuting their people when it should be the people prosecuting them. Where is the hatred of the Russians in there? Quite the contrary, there is none.

and mind you, those criticizuing Russia on these threads have criticized the Clinton administration and their own liberals here too. So this is not xenophobia, this is genuine assessment of where the prosecution tools lay, whose hands they lay in and how reasonable these people are.

Russia does need a central government to manage nuclear responsibility, but why claim to stop the cold war yet keep the nukes pointed? That's socialist hypocrisy.

[Ivan the Terrible]

Let Lenin rest in peace, warns Putin

"Many people link their whole lives with Lenin's name. For them his burial would mean that they had bowed down to false values, set themselves false tasks and lived in vain." - Vladimir Putin

[Ivan the Terrible]

"...before you Western intelligentsia forced Communism on us..."

Now who is the tin-foil hatted conspiracy nut? At least we were nice enough to help you out of the hole with a fat international handout.

[Ivan the Terrible]

Congratulations.

[GOP_1900AD]

So Russia has finally discovered what the PRC discovered. Big deal. Russia is yet another nation state where idealogy and political systems are worn like fashions, whatever works best in any given time to further underlying sinister goals. In the cult of personality, it is the lines of power (and accurate and strategic handoff thereof) that is most important. This is probably why the West lacked the courage to occupy lands, demand unconditional treaties or demand accounting by the "past" leadership when the West "won" the Cold War. The West somehow knew that if, after the 1989 - 1991 "fall," any sort of true settlement was sought, that the brilliance of the "dream" that had emerged would quickly become tarnished, and that, likely, overt conflict (hot, not cold) would emerge. So, in typical Western liberal fashion, appeasement, conciliation and benefit of a doubt started to reign surpreme.

Of course, to say that the West "won" the Cold War is akin to saying that the Triple Entente "won" WW-I, yet another indistinct and ambiguous European "armistice" that solved nothing and led to a much greater conflict 20 years hence. Disturbing yet true...

[Stavka2]

Fat international hand outs? First off, the hand outs were quite small and most of that money had to be spent hiring Clintoon associates. As for the IMF loans of $18 billion, they are more then two thirds paid off. The IMF was the one who insisted on the 30%+ tax rate and berated Putin for going to the flat 13, saying that Russia would implode...guess they were wrong again.

As for which Westerners: Marx, Engles, Armnhammer, Kaiser Wilham II to name a few.

[Stavka2]

Yeah, that's right, ever home in Russia has a bunker 500 feet under the ground. Hell, we've dug to the center of the earth and it's hollow, that's were we've already hid 2000 billion people to take over the earth after we incinrate you worms off of it. Here it comes, in 2 days, so stay tooned...nut jobs.

[Stavka2]

First of all, what do you know about the conditions in Russia? You have never been there. You have no idea, except what you get from your conspiracy crap mags and other wack job sites. You need someone to hate. Putin has installed things that you could only wish Bush had. Problem is, you need a focus to your existance, to keep it meaningful, so instead of the Islamics, you elevate your self image by thinking you see plots behind plots, which don't exist. Now, having said all this, I am done talking to wall paper...that's the lot of you. Don't bump me or post to me, I have better things to do with my brain cells then waste them on vegetables.

[lavaroise]

You hypocrit SOB. You claim you know all about me, yet you claim I should know nothing about the Kremlin. Typical socialist hypocrisy.

Bottom line is the Russian people are still confined and people like you still demand from them to consider Putin is somekind of sinless great leader. Well, the delusions start here.

[lavaroise]

I think the problem is that things in the West (at the pinnacle of its power and wealth) can only get worse; things in Russia can only get better.

Believe me, if anyone is laughing about their own greatness to come, it ain't Russians, God maybe, but not Russians. You guys paint yourselves in this delusional picture that is really ... well just childlish images. That you call others ignoramuses in the same breath does not impress.